"Creatively" abusing incentives.

[Primetime]

If someone found a spot where monsters couldn't path to them I can see that as an exploit, but from my understanding most of these people are standing at the entrance macroing, where any player or monster can ruin their day. How would something like that be clear to players that it's an exploit? Come on now.

Agreed fully. I was macroing hiding in a quiet room in covetous completely unaware that I was breaking any rules. Imagine my surprise when I saw this post.

Also, the guard farming technique was initially approved by staff when I asked about it. Then Sen said it was an exploit.
Also, the method of stealing from a packhorse without going grey was considered totally fine when I asked staff about it. Then I found out it had been deemed an exploit and changed.

I received direct confirmation that these things were allowed, only to find out that they were in actuality NOT allowed. So Obviously there are grey areas.

There are definite grey areas. No matter what anyone thinks of me, I know my intentions are honest, and that I have no intention to exploit... and if someone like me can find themselves breaking rules unknowingly, then you better be damn sure that others will find themselves in the same situations in the future.

But, when Az makes an official announcement, there are no excuses after that point. That's why it is a very good thing when he takes this measure. It allows players to know the rules, and it also allows staff members below him the ability to give out the correct information (Which I have no doubt is always their intention)

[Budikah]

People will creatively abuse anything. You just need to come down on them like a ton of bricks.

I noticed you spawned over a few locations that I had used to do this in the past... excellent. Just don't spawn a bunch of trash mobs please?

[Quantum]

I think a kind of Code of Laws regarding gameplay rules could easily be written up, and I've seen you guys put Patch Notes on login, why not put Game Rules on login? Make it real simple.

GAME RULES:
- No EasyUO
- No Racism
- No Dungeon Macroing
*If you don't follow these rules, you will be dealt with by players, staff, and possibly have administrative action taken against your account.

[Domnu]

I've been doing some dungeon macroing myself. Maybe that's hypocriitical of me, but for various reasons I didn't think it was exploiting. It was actually kind of fun to take a big gamble and sometimes come away with a win. I'm glad to know that it's officially considered exploitation, now, and won't be doing it again.

Thanks for being straightforward with the heads up, Az.

[Krypt]

I've been doing some dungeon macroing myself. Maybe that's hypocriitical of me, but for various reasons I didn't think it was exploiting. It was actually kind of fun to take a big gamble and sometimes come away with a win. I'm glad to know that it's officially considered exploitation, now, and won't be doing it again.

Thanks for being straightforward with the heads up, Az.

Awwww. Now I have no reason to go to hythloth!

[Primetime]

It's a funny thing when people force you to write out a 12 page specification of the rules - mostly because they're creating the grey areas themselves and trying to get around things, then complaining when their obvious exploiting/cheating is stopped.

"¡But you never clearly stated that...!"

A-bloo bloo bloo.

Please, what ridiculous hyperbole. Stop trolling. A few sentences is all it took to clear this up.

Plenty of people would not expect macroing hiding in the back of a dungeon to be an exploit. It's an unusual rule on a new shard and that's why it shouldn't be expected for people to know it without an official announcement of some sort. Any reasonable person can see that.

Now that the official announcement has been made, there is no excuse for confusion.

[white]

I don't understand why there isn't a sticky on the forums with clear rules for in-game conduct. The current rules sticky is just for the forums. I don't know why there isn't a popup on login with a link to said forum thread so there's no confusion. This stuff takes 10 minutes to do.

[Quantum]

There should be a clarification about Fishing in the "Final Word" post. It's resource gathering, but it's also just a use item/target location macro. Falls in both categories. And lots of people ask about it.

[Az]

Fishing is totally grey area. Here's how we handle it:

Macroing? vs. Scripting?

If someone is standing on a spot and casting over and over, we leave it alone.

If someone is, say, sailing around and fishing, returning to sell items and then heading back out to sea all completely AFK... this is obvious scripting and we treat it as such.

In fact, that's pretty much how we handle everything.

[Epsilon]

I love the justifications people give that basically equate to:

I wouldn't cheat if you didn't leave such loopholes.
My ethics are questionable so don't give me temptation.
Why not fix the system instead of point fingers.
...Perhaps they are on to something

I will quote from Kingdom of Heaven "What man is a man if he doesn't make the world a better place?" and Legend "All wolves suffer fleas, tis easy enough to scratch"

damn, I love Ridley Scott films.

Unwaiverable virtue is a self-serving vanity of the close-minded.