Weapon Special Hits

[Jack Straw]

This has come up in multiple threads, so I figure we should actually address it.

There are many who will get up in arms over special hits:
- "It isn't era accurate"
- "Chain stun from spears is OP"
- OMG CONC BLOWS WTF?

The fact of the matter is that weapon special hits made dexxers infinitely more viable. (note: I don't think that dexxers aren't option right now at all.) I think they're very much so underused in GvG when they shouldn't be. Be that as it may, I think they would look more attractive to serious PvP groups if they had the ability to stun their opponent for two seconds or hit at 150% damage with their war hammer or drop their opponents mana IN HALF.

Basically I want to center the discussion on this in a thread devoted to it and not in a thread devoted to 10 other things.

Personally, I'm not sure if I want them or not. I'm swaying towards "no" though.

[Diz]

Stuns, procs, special wep hits...

...all very badass, help spice up PvP and give different viable templates and playstyles in various combat systems......

.....it all boils down to implementation and balance. That's the hitch, it seems to be a big hitch.

I think this Wep Specials concept........ is really about spicing up all templates. Magery has tons of spells underutilized or simply broken. Dexxers have tons of weapons that are just, literally, vendor trash.

It appears to me that Wep Specials would be good if they were implemented well and with other stuff like some Magery spell tweaks. Why not, if they're balanced and don't just lead to stunlocking mages or para blow spamming fencers.

Lets see where this goes, I'm definitely interested, not convinced yet though.

[Dewderonomy]

Special moves. These need to be in. There was a reason it was put in, and why warriors (pure dexxers) don't exist in large groups, if at all, on many servers these days (save dedicated role-play servers). They provide additional template options that open doors to self-balancing the sync/mage issues.

Keep them simple:
-Spears and short spears para blow for 3 seconds.
-Halberds, bardiches and axes concussion blow, which had done several different things since its inception, including damaging mana, penalyzing Int temporarily (also damaging mana), and causing extra damage (as per AoS).
-War hammers dealing crushing blows, which was ~150% damage.

Then it's a matter of determining how they are to be implemented. AoS made them tactical and controllable instead of random, relying on mana; other shards have done similar things in the past. However, med warriors can make some pretty mean templates if it's based solely on mana.

The following groups are the ones I think would be best, though feel free to mix-and-match:

a) Mana-based, Cooldown. Each special move costs 20ish mana with a 10-20 second cooldown. This means, even if the mana's available, it can't be chained by one person.

b) Stamina-based, Cooldown. Make it based on stamina. Warriors need swing speed, and you can't chug a refresh without disarming. Not to mention you can't exactly carry an infinite amount of refreshes. Plus, there's still the 10-20 second cooldown to avoid any chaining. Make it cost stamina much in the same way Stun Punch and Disarm do, including stamina penalties for missing.

c) Skill-based, Random. Make it random again, but make it based more on the skills available, including Tactics, Anatomy and Arms Lore. The more points in these skills, the more likely it will set off. Maybe place a 3- or 5-second cooldown to prevent the possibility of chaining para blows, but make it random nonetheless.

These options obviously don't include Stun/Disarm as they are toggle-able, as I think the first two in the list should be (make it Primary Ability/Disarm).

Stun would be 3-seconds as the para blow without the cooldown. I've seen this work just fine (misses and hits suck stamina dry, and chaining them isn't really a practical option). Disarm shouldn't have a rearm penalty. It made stealing less art and more gimp and mages putting 80 points in Arms Lore with some refreshes became untouchable, only having to use the ability once every 10 seconds. If there is a cooldown, it shouldn't be more than 10 seconds.

As far as dexxers (pure warriors) being a viable option in PvP, it's only when the bulk of the group is comprised of mages. Typically, it'd be one warrior harassing a mage and keeping them moving and disrupted while the rest do the heavy hauling. To get a feel for that uselessness, get a spell book, put only some healing spells in it, and go play for 6 months in a group. See how fun PvP is then.

[SoulStealer A.O]

Let's leave the UO:R PvP mechanics to the UO:R type servers.

[Dewderonomy]

Why not leave the king systems and pirates to RP servers, then, if our entire premise for this shard is to stay the same as it was 10 years ago? Can we also restrict all the neat Razor features to make it more in line with it was in '99? What about putting horses back in?

There's a reason even T2A, a very popular pre-UO:R server that remains "truly era accurate", has bullshit rares and instanced minigames and tournies that have no place in or resemblance to a '99 shard: the playerbase is bored.

Also why its membership is declining...

[Remixninja]

Let's leave the UO:R PvP mechanics to the UO:R type servers.

seconded.

special hits might have a place, but not in t2a pvp imo.

There are other ways to make melee better without totally tipping the scales

[MethodManX]

Lets make all weapons viable for different reasons instead of adding special blows. Perhaps a bump to low level magery spells for a combination of both for warriors? So many unused low level (1-3) spells that could be reworked.

[Dewderonomy]

Guess we can impose melee accuracy/evasion penalties based on Dexterity. <60 Dexterity imposes penalties, so a mage with 25ish Dex might get hit, say, 35% more often? That makes melee better without putting in special moves.

Could put Lethal Poison in with Poisoning through melee attacks, though chugging 5+ greater cures to stop 20 damage a tick will obviously bring up problems.

On a shard that isn't "era-accurate" in the first place, according to Az, how do you propose to balance melee and make it a viable skill in PvP? I'm interested to know...

[Diz]

Lets make all weapons viable for different reasons instead of adding special blows. Perhaps a bump to low level magery spells for a combination of both for warriors? So many unused low level (1-3) spells that could be reworked.

4reel

[Dewderonomy]

How do you make the weapons "different"? There's still going to be poisoned katanas for disrupts, or krysses/warforks for the fencer. Quarter staves for the macer.

Are broadswords going to deal an average of 20 more damage per hit, suddenly? What about scimitars and cutlasses? How are they going to be sweetened to make them more viable? Or two-handers, what about them? Make them more powerful, more accurate? And won't that only strengthen the tank, not address the warrior?

I understand that you want to find other methods than special moves, but we need actual examples. Don't need numbers, but gotta' have more than "let's make weapons more useful", being that that's the whole point of the thread.