Lord British requests input on PvP and Player Housing for his next MMO.

[Gabe Newell]

He created two different threads on the stratic forums.

http://stratics.com/community/thread...on-pvp.282184/

We would like to provide an open UO style world, but we do not want to run off newbies. Please give me your ideas for and opinions about PvP in what you see as the Ultimate RPG.

Thanks,
Lord British

http://stratics.com/community/thread...ousing.282186/

We would like to provide as close to the open housing methods that we provided in UO, but perhaps improving the "urban sprawl" issues. We definitely want player towns to be possible and worthwhile. Please give us your opinions and ideas about player housing.

Thanks,
Lord British

I think this is rather interesting that Richard Garriott would consult the community on this. Especially given IPY's attempts at solving some of these dilemmas. I'm sure you've sat, ruminating these very same conundrums, Az. It's also a little worrisome that Garriott doesn't already have the answers.

What's your take on this kind of thing? What thoughts would you give to ol' Lord British.

[Az]

My personal take?

[Gabe Newell]

Well, yeah... you or anyone here. I mean, I of course know what side of the fence everyone here is on for this sort of MMO design philosophy, but I don't know how one actually tackles these issues if they were to make a new game with a fresh start.

That's where it gets interesting to me. The questions LB poses are practically paradoxes. How can you have houses without having houses all over the ****ing place? Instanced housing was the answer to this for several MMOs after UO, but instanced housing is ass and defeats the purpose. How can you have PvP everywhere without beginners getting butthurt? Instanced PvP? Nope, that's ass. How do you give freedom without letting people be free?

It's like ****, no wonder sandbox MMOs are barely ever made, y'know?


Sometimes I think he needs to just make a hardcore game. One where that is made clear up front and doesn't pander to today's casual MMO audience. I know that way of designing is seen as immediately resigning your game to a small audience but look at Demons Souls and Dark Souls. Those games are huge hits while being ****ing hard, and they play that aspect up with the dark, foreboding atmosphere of the game and the expectation of getting your ass handed to you. They tell you that right up front. They market that like it's the main selling feature, **** there's even a "PREPARE TO DIE" edition. And people eat it up, they love it.

But you can't make an MMO that just ****s all over you all the time, because of course you still need the lighter side of the game. So, I dunno...

[Az]

I wrote a Haiku:

It's a tough question.
There's no real answer, Richard.
So ask Raph Koster.

[Az]

I'd actually post my opinion there, but he hasn't been on that forum for a week. Who knows if he'd ever read it.

[Gabe Newell]

>So ask Raph Koster.

Haha this. A million times this.

I don't think LB knows what he's doing. He gets the credit for UO, but I'm pretty sure it was all Raph Koster.

[Az]

I didn't mean that as an insult, of course. There's no UO without either of those guys, and a lot of other people that get very little credit compared to them.

[kajjait]

I've been thinking about the housing issue, for an MMO i am developing alone (sorry IPY i got ambitious) and thanks for ignoring my email when you were looking for unity programmers AZ, it drove me to start my own project. which is still in its infancy http://thegame.webuda.com

so here are my housing thoughts:
and this is designed to work in a free to play modern MMO, so keep that in mind before you go ape **** about paying money for in game items....

if i were to implement housing i think attaching real life value with "on-line property" is one way to go. you would have to have a small housing team to place the houses, and set up whatever gameplay mechanisms are needed obviously, but who built a castle in a day?

so you could make a one time purchase to own property in the game, which could also be setup in a way to allow players to rent from other players, or transfer property ownership to other players using in game currency.

another part of this idea would be non-static housing. where your house could become under siege and temporarily razed by competing factions for land control. player should lose no personal property because a house could potentially be razed overnight while he's fast asleep, but he would log in and the house would be gone. then he would have to have it placed for him by the housing team again. < theres a lot of awesome scenarios i can imagine with this type of system, and it incentives forming alliances with other players, and building defensive structures like walls, and hiring guards. non factioned houses cannot be razed, but will gain no benefits of being apart of said faction. (another system i need to write out)

i want to see something like this in a game. it could set itself up to have different styles of governments, depending on how the players feel their towns should be ruled by the big ballers who dumped a bunch of money into the games property market early on to build their own kingdom. maybe special cases could be put into place for players to purchase housing with in game currency, and only available for the brave ones who fight off the douchebaggery on a daily basis... personally i feel there is no place for unbalanced combat to incentivise this, but adding monetary / other gameplay benefits for bringing justice should be top priority. and should be secured in a way that a player could not possibly farm this system.. i can think of a few ways. but they probably don't need to be in this post.

the price of housing should be comparable to the target retail price of the game. and scaled up according to property size. (free to play, pay to be land owner)

to avoid having to refund a player who lost his house, and no available housing slots are currently open the game should keep track of square footage of available housing, and how many deeds are currently in paper, and not instantiated. as to always have at least enough housing room, for deeds in banks and backpacks.

if anyone can think of pitfalls / improvements to this type of housing system please let me know. this is the first time i wrote this idea down