Evil RP and IPY

[Leonardo Reyas]

(ATTN: This is long. My apologies to the forum trolls)

There's an ongoing debate on how to foster the RP community, and though I touched on the subject in the original thread I thought that I could clarify with specific steps I would take, because at this point it's not only about creating an environment that will foster RP on both the good and evil side, it's a matter of creating a big enough splash that you can draw people's attention who may have otherwise already made up their minds that IPY just isn't for them.

The main points of contention are as follows:

1. IPY already has many tools which are awesome for good-aligned RP guilds.
2. IPY has many tools which are very effective at controlling the PK population.
3. Many evil RP'ers will not come to IPY because of those very effective tools that control the PK population, since often time being evil involves PK'ing.

While we can talk about champ spawns, pixel crack, skill gain, etc... and while all of those things are indeed good for RP and are things that will attract RPers here, ultimately people will stay for the community, and the centerpiece of any long-lasting RP community is good vs. evil conflict.

So we have plenty of goodies for the good guys... but we really need alot more for the bad guys. Yew has enjoyed alot of success on IPY, but the last few months we found ourselves being the only game in town... the only active RP guild. When you have no one to play with but yourself... things can start getting a little stale.

So since IPY has many tools which are awesome for good-aligned RP guilds, but the tools for keeping the PK population are so effective that they have choked out evil RP guilds... how do you create a system that will be welcoming to evil RPers without also giving carte blanche for griefers to take over? Here's what I'd like to suggest... it's a multi-tiered system that would really have to go in as a group of features in order to obtain the desired effect: drawing evil RPers to IPY and by extension re-vitalizing the good-aligned RP community.

In essense, it involves 3 main systems:
I. Modifications of the Evil Regions
II. Modifications to the Paladin & Justice System
III. Tools for Evil RPers

Since this forum only allows me 10000 character-long posts, I'll be breaking this into 3 posts. Yes, it's that ungodly long. As you might have guessed, I'm a huge UO nerd.

[Leonardo Reyas]

I. MODIFICATIONS TO EVIL REGIONS.

I would advocate for further modification of the Evil Regions system. Evil Regions should be modified as follows, and I'll follow up with an explanation on the pros & cons of the modifications:[/B]

1. Make Evil Regions not an all-grey region, but rather a no-short-term-count region.
The reason being is that you are creating the evil region with the intent to draw in evil RPers, but by making it an all-grey zone, you have effectivelly given carte blanche to anyone to grief blues within the zone without facing any consequences. This has the undesired effect of discouraging good-aligned RPers from visiting the Evil Region, because odds are they'll be griefed by whatever blues are there. By making it such that blue-on-blue killing still results in Murderer status, you create enough of an incentive to not have blues griefed within an evil region by noto-pks.

2. Make Evil Regions affect the decay rate of Murder counts while the PC is alive and not in a house in the evil region.
Basically, make Short Term Murder Counts decay at a rate 8x faster while within the Evil Region, and Long Term Murder counts decay at a rate 8x slower while within the Evil Region. This means that while alive in the Evil Region, you will decay 1 short term murder count every hour, but a long term murder count won't decay for 320 hours. The reasoning behind this is that most of the RPers utilizing these zones will be spending the majority of their playing time within these zones, and will occasionally venture out of their fort in search of blood and tribute. By allowing the evil zone to decay murder counts at a highly accelerated rate, you create a way for those blood & glory expeditions to happen without opening up the evil RP guilds to be destroyed by Paladins. They would only enjoy these benefits so long as they stayed within the confines of their fort/evil region, thus further encouraging them to stick around those areas. By making it so that the player character has to be alive and outside of a house, you also make it so you can't just safely macro off your short terms within the zone, as a Paladin could still come up and stat you... for that reason I would be against making it a no-stat region... instead I would turn Buc's Den into a no-stat region, I will clarify how in the section on the Paladin system below.

3. Extend the range of the Evil Region to a wider radius than is currently the case. About 3-5 screens around the outer perimiter of the Orc Fort, Undead Crypt and Savage Swamp.
This is simply to give the evil RP guild a little more room to breathe so that evil RPers don't feel the need to automatically bunker in the fort at the first sight of danger.

PROS:
You are giving evil RPers space to create an environment for good-aligned RP guilds to stick around, which is good for the shard.
You give evil RPers a way to defend their fort/crypt/etc without having to inevitably take statloss.
You do not allow blues to grief other blues (most notably blue RPers) when they enter the Evil Region.
You allow accelerated decay of murder counts while playing at the Evil Region so that Orcs/Undead/etc who spend the majority of their time at these locations can still venture out and have some leeway on not taking stat.

CONS:
You are favoring one group of players over another and may have to fight off complaints about favoritism.
You are mitigating the effects of PK'ing, though it would only benefit those who spend large amounts of time online at the Evil Regions themselves.

II. MODIFICATIONS OF THE PALADIN & JUSTICE SYSTEM

IPY arguably has the most effective system of any player shard of discouraging PK'ing short of dishing out old-school style perma statloss on all deaths like OSI had "back in the day". I'm a strong advocate of the system, but I do think the penalties have been so severe that they have stifled the ability for Evil RP guilds to take root here in a meaningful way. The Evil Regions are a good start, but I still see the need to create some risk and expense for being a Paladin, but at the same time keep many of the things that make them so effective at containing the PK population and their ability to grief.

1. Require Paladins to carry a Holy Orb in order to incur permanent statloss.
Make it such that if a Paladin kills a murderer with 5+ short terms, the PK only takes temporary statloss equivalent to 1 minutes per short term count unless the Paladin is carrying a Holy Orb. If the Paladin is carrying the Holy Orb, then the statloss is permanent. This is so that a Paladin has to be carrying something of some value in order to have the power to incur statloss and that it's not just an inherent power granted to them. At the same time, increase the cost of the Holy Orb to double it's current value in Platinum.

2. Temporary loss of Paladin status if the Paladin flags Criminal.
Make it such that if a Paladin flags grey for any reason, they are unable to dish out statloss until they have paid a Penance to the Paladin guild in the amount of 5 platinum, or wait for 8 hours. The Paladin's paladin gear would automatically become unusable during that time, but it would not "poof", simply go back to their backpack. This is to discourage Paladins from engaging in griefing and mitigate some of the abuses that happen within the system. Since everyone is flagged Criminal in Buc's Den, this also means that murderers cannot be statted within Buc's Den, creating a de-facto "stat-free zone" where Paladin vs PK battles can occur without the threat of statloss. The temporary "Criminal" status on a Paladin in Buc's Den would be the only case in which they do not have to pay the 5 platinum Penance or wait 8 hours after the criminal flag wears off to regain their Paladin powers... the loss of their ability to deal statloss would be limited in this instance to only the length of their stay in Buc's Den.

3. Reduce the gold amount required to pay off statloss to 500gp per short-term murder count.
Make it such that paying off a short-term murder count only costs 500gp, but that money is only to prevent permanent statloss and pay off the short-term counts. Even with payment, make the murderer still take 30% temporary statloss that will last for 30 minutes per short term count, but will continue to decay while they are offline. If the PK dosent want to take temporary statloss, then give them the option to pay the 1000gp per short-term count and be done with it once and for all.

4. After a PK is imprisoned by a Detective's Bounty Hunters, put them in 2 hour of 30% temporary statloss but they cannot take permanent stat during that time.
This is to prevent paladin abuse from killing a PK shortly after they are imprisoned to put them in stat... 2 hours is sufficient time to allow the PK to escape and run back to their little den of evil and plan their next foul deeds.

5. Make Paladins unable to give murder counts to Murderers.
Paladins are the de-facto adversaries of Murderers and should be attackable by them. This would also help evil RP'ers when defending their territory to allow them to defend themselves from would-be griefers and take pre-emptive action to prevent one of their fellow orcs/undead from being statted.

6. Remove the "Boom Box" loophole to avoid statloss.
With the reduced statloss penalties, it's only fair to get rid of the boom box loophole that PKs use to avoid having to pay for statloss. Make it such that if the PK takes any damage from a Paladin before they use the boom box, they are subject to statloss.

PROS:
You add a risk associated with possessing the ability to dish out statloss by forcing a Paladin to carry a Holy Orb, where as the system currently requires no such risk on part of a Paladin.
You discourage griefers who play Paladins from trying to incite someone to attack them upon performing a criminal action by removing their Paladin status and all associated benefits on a temporary basis.
You reduce the amount of gold required to pay off permanent statloss but with a trade-off that the PK has to accept temporary statloss for the reduced cost, thus removing them from the field of battle and their hunting grounds on a temporary basis.
You allow evil RPers the ability to initiate combat against Paladins who are most likely seeking to grief them, while at the same time giving the same benefit to murderers so there are more incentives to fight off Paladins.
You remove a method that has been used to avoid the Justice System while at the same time making "doing the time" a more reasonable option.

CONS:
You have to accept reduced penalties for PK'ing with the expectation that it will allow for the establishment of evil RP guilds.

[Leonardo Reyas]

III. TOOLS FOR EVIL RPERS

Now that there are sufficient tools within the Justice System to allow evil RPers to establish themselves, we need to evaluate what they can be offered that is comparable to the Kings system which works great for Good-Aligned RP guilds. I'm sure there can be many more contributions on this regard from other users here about this, but basically what you want is to give the evil RPers tools to improve the environment they play in.

1. Introduce Kin Groups and make it so a guild can only join a Kin group with staff admission, similar to the NEW guild.
Allow RPers to form Kin groups with certain types of monsters so that they are no longer automatically attacked by members of that monster group within the Evil Regions, similar to how the Masks of Orcish Kin function. This way Orc players can mingle with NPC orcs, Undead to roam the halls of the Yew Crypt, and Savages can hang around at the swamps without being attacked by the NPCs. Increase the drop rates of Kin-related items such as Orc Helmets, Bone Armor, savage paint berries, so they are so common that they are not an inconvenience to have to replace by farming the local NPC population. No one wants to kill 15 orc lords to get an orc helmet, especially when you have a group of 10 orcs vying for the same piece of equipment. Create the following Kin groups, just to get started:

The Orcish Horde: Orcs, Trolls, Ettins, Ogres
The Undead Scourge: All Undead, Evil Mages
The Savage Tribe: All Savages
Outlaws: Pirates and Brigands

Allow Kin groups to purchase kin-specific buildings at double the price of their generic counterparts. Also make kin-specific house decorations and items purchasable at Kin vendors, such as Orcish standards, bamboo tables, haunted ships, savage huts, etc.

2. Set Kin Groups permanently at war with one-another
Make Kin groups automatically orange to one-another, but also give them the option to declare an alliance and utilize Alliance chat. This would require enabling the Alliance feature world-wide, which wouldn't be bad either as it would benefit not only evil RP guilds but good-aligned RP guilds as well.

3. Allow the purchase of Kin-specific equipment off a vendor.
Let the Kin vendor sell temporarily blessed(1 week?) Orc Helmets, Bone Armor, Pirate hats, etc. These items are generally inferior in PvP to other armor set types, are really only used by dexers (who are underpowered in group PvP on IPY anyway) and are generally not even looted except for the purpose of griefing.

There are probably many other items that could be made available on the Kin vendor that would be beneficial to evil RP guilds.

PROS:
Allows evil RP guilds to customize more fully to their taste and playstyle.
Discourages grief behaviour such as looting bone armor and orc helmets.
Limits abuse by involving staff in admission into a Kin group.

CONS:
Open to some abuse if staff is not diligent in their selection of guilds and/or individuals into a Kinship group, such as people abusing it to PK indiscriminately in Evil Regions without risk of being attacked by NPC monsters.
Creates a sense that there is favoritism to RP groups, though this could be countered by introducing additional items that are accessible through the O/C/B vendors for Militia credits.

===========

CONCLUSION:

Overall I think to have Evil RP guilds come to IPY, and by extension facilitate the establishment and longevity of good-aligned RP guilds, both Evil and Good sides must have the mechanics and tools that will allow them to customize as much of their environment as possible. IPY needs not only the mechanics to facilitate evil RP, but to also do something big which will catch the eye of the evil RP guilds who may have written IPY off as too unfriendly to their playstyle... we need something to create that buzz and bring them back for good.

[Not a Thief]

No.

PKs are everywhere already, griefing every event the staff tries to hold.

[Logann]

I think you forgot the Burning Legion demonic kinship alliance.

jk. good ideas, but the first con listed for kin groups is a big one. PKs running through revamped Wrong, Cove 3, Deceit, etc with zero risk of getting aggro gives them a huge advantage in dungeon blue v red pvp. Above and beyond the already existing advantage that reds likely aren't expending mana, resources, weight on killing monsters. e.g. blues farming in dungeons are already easy targets for PKs, this just makes them complete fodder.

I do genuinely like the idea but this aspect needs to be tweaked. Some penalty or something to compensate for "activating" the no-aggro due to being kin. Reduced run speed, longer cast time, or something idk ><

[Rehsif]

Hot damn. With a few minor tweaks for fairness, Leo has outlined everything that needs to happen if you ever wish to see RP flourish on this shard. I can't tell you how many RP guilds I've tried to butter up with how awesome the shard is, but inevitably the question of stat loss comes up and it has ALWAYS been a deal breaker, no matter how much I try and sugar coat it.

[Leonardo Reyas]

I think you forgot the Burning Legion demonic kinship alliance.

jk. good ideas, but the first con listed for kin groups is a big one. PKs running through revamped Wrong, Cove 3, Deceit, etc with zero risk of getting aggro gives them a huge advantage in dungeon blue v red pvp. Above and beyond the already existing advantage that reds likely aren't expending mana, resources, weight on killing monsters. e.g. blues farming in dungeons are already easy targets for PKs, this just makes them complete fodder.

I do genuinely like the idea but this aspect needs to be tweaked. Some penalty or something to compensate for "activating" the no-aggro due to being kin. Reduced run speed, longer cast time, or something idk ><

This is definetly the portion of my proposal that can use some tweaking, thank you for the feedback

I agree that in the wrong hands it would be abused, that's why I proposed making Kin membership subject to staff approval. This is where I would want Seers be involved in the system, as Seers typically spend some time with the various RP guilds in some fashion. We would need a couple of more Seers, but that's good because Seers are another one of those things that will draw RPers, both good and evil, to this server. If we want to make it easier for Seers to police this sort of thing, perhaps they could have a Paladin Orb-type item that notifies them when a member of a Kin group racks up a murder count so if they need to check out what's going on, it facilitates their responsibility. We could even have Kin membership be done on an individual basis just like Militia membership is, that way the actions of one bad apple won't reflect poorly on the rest of the group.

I do agree that it is a pretty powerful thing to be able to run around a dungeon without being attacked by monsters. If a group wants to maintain that status, they shouldn't be allowed to abuse their privilege and go around randomly PK'ing everyone in a dungeon. I would make the ownership of Kin items such as all the house decorations, custom houses, etc, also be contingent on them maintaining Kin status. If they abuse their power, they lose all those privileges. Any decent RP group will give their would-be victims the option to continue whatever they're doing by demanding payment of some kind of asking they leave the area before initiating an attack. There are circumstances where killing will happen, but if the community polices itself to a reasonable degree (which the RP community generally does) then it shouldn't get out of hand.

[Bellona]

NO SPECIAL PERKS FOR ROLE PLAYERS PLZ.

[Freight Elevator]

NO SPECIAL PERKS FOR ROLE PLAYERS PLZ.

Agreed

[Grenade123]

-Make the evil regions drop lootz that is worth fighting/grinding for (for example: every 500 evil mages killed, 1 drops a tilly painting or something like that).
-Make the 'holy orb' cost 100 plat coins or more so it makes the Pallys have something to lose against the pks.

Everything else is too RP for me to chime in on.