Let's Improve PvP

[Axel]

The pvp is already balanced. You are way out in left field. The better players are not easily killed by one build or another. The best pvpers always come out on top. People just think it could be more interesting by doing things like nerfing mini heal to discourage defensive players from waiting out on lucky max damage hits to go offense.

Axel do you disagree with my proposal? I thought we established that this was a forum for the diverse community of ipy to make suggestions to improve the pvp experience.

I for one don't enjoy doing 10 damage twice in a row with a weapon that has an average damage of 20 while being hit by the same weapon for 30 damage twice in a row by an enemy. My suggestion would help alleviate this scenario and take some luck out of the game.

Instead of being a child how about you evaluate the suggestion.

plz stop

[xiiiri]

Actually, the best games take a diverse group of people to test things out.

When IPY2 was in BETA, we took a group of "known to be good PvPers" and they had a large imput in to how PvP was done. (Although mainly based on IPY1).

Yes, PvP is a large part of IPY2 and a big reason why many play here, but it is the community as a whole that keeps things alive. That does mean the crafters, the PvMers, the RPers and the annoying guys that try to noto-pk you in dungeons, or drag monsters on to you etc etc..

I think there should be a group of testers, but yes.. there has to be a careful, careful balance between balancing PvP (which I think is pretty much spot on with MOST things currently, few tweaks needed MAYBE) and with these spells being used in other situations and circumstances other than "fair duels" and fair fights.

But, of course.. the people who DO use "PvP" skills, tactics, spells the most.. ARE the "hardcore" PvPers, they can see the system better, but yes.. Kalanymr is right in that we can't JUST consider these spells, tweaks etc for flat out "1v1" fights, I think that is what he is trying to say.

There are a handful of people who play here who I do think are very well versed in PvP though, their imput would be desired, but not exclusively cutting out any other game play use for these spells.

Ya tilly, the INPUT of all of these diverse players came up and championed such great ideas as;

-decrease teleport range
-****ty wall of stone timer
-trying as hard as they could to to keep detectives as imba as possible
-trying as hard as they could to make dexers even better then they already are
-dungeon escape gates (hey these ****ing hurt OCB and red pvp and possibly the worst thing in the game.)

Why would the best pvpers ONLY want to change 1v1. What a silly notion - they are the only people to group pvp on a HIGH level, why would we want to change only tourney 1v1.

LOL just read Kalanmyrs last post. This guy couldn't balance UO if his life was at stake. But you know my expectations are so low already anyway.

[Veis Driance (Yew)]

I think the problem is that you staff is requesting changes that need to be made to the PvP system, primarily mechanics changes, when there really isn't that much wrong with the system as is. Sure there are a few changes. Primarily Q-staves I think are *slightly* OP. The stamina drain, along with the speed it hits and the damage it deals could be slightly tweaked. I wouldn't suggest any changes to the swing speed, maybe reduce damage slightly or the amount of stamina it takes. No one portion of the Qstave mechanics are OP, but when you put them all together it does seem a bit unbalanced. Mini heals are a bit OP in my opinion as well. I'd suggest reducing the HP they heal *slightly*, no changes to delay or anything like that, they just heal too much IMO for how quickly you can spam them. Other than that, I like that mages can't run rampant with tele-run. There isn't a heck of a lot of diversity on the shard in terms of builds, but that is just the nature of a T2A shard and I enjoy it as is.

So basically I feel the mechanics are fine and some small tweaks implemented could balance things out. I honestly haven't played a server in quite some time where I didn't have any real gripes with the overall balance of the shard. Tank mages reign supreme, but that is how T2A was and thats what people who loved this era generally want to see, era accuracy with new custom systems built around said era mechanics. The problem isn't with the mechanics of the PvP, its with some of the systems built around them. Primarily, the restrictions on murderers, coupled with the paladin system, and the OCB system. The Paladins idea is a great idea in theory, I think it just went too far in one direction. I'd be fine with keeping paladins, just make it so their are less harsh penalties for being a red. Paladins keep the reds in check well enough with how powerful they are. I don't think we need such harsh penalties with the Paladin system already in place.

I'll save my OCB suggestions per staffs request. My point is that the mechanics are basically fine, no tele rings, no heat seekers, no tele running, none of that garbage. If you want that you can wait and play on the UOR side as that is all UOR or beyond implementations as far as I can remember. The gist of it is is that the mechanics are fine, the systems are not so fine. The goal, imo, should be to promote more sporadic and unplanned field fighting. The best way to do this IMO is to lessen restrictions on reds slightly and get people out and in the world. Increase PvE endgame, champ spawns, high end mobs, more overland spawn, more loot/very small chance for rare drops and higher end weps. Recalling to hyloth and deceit i'm fairly up in the air on, I could go either way tbh. We just need to get people out and in the world again, if you do that, people will flag grey, PKs will be chasing down farming groups, blues will come, some of them undoubedtly the ones with the stones to be in OCB, and the PvP will pick up.

Mechanics are fine, give people a reason to be out in the world, and they will fight each other, its pretty much a guarantee.

Huah,

Veis

[PierreCatman]

I haven't been active on the server as long as most of the people in this thread, but I'm going to throw in my two cents as someone who loves dexer PvP and started a mage after seeing how frustrating some of the gimp points are

Here are some suggestions and problem areas, feel free to correct my ass if I'm way out of line on something:

1. Archery misses WAYYYY too often - Combined with the "stop to shoot" adjustment to archery, I can't really be an effective member of group PvP because bow shots (especially heavy x-bows) are so unreliable compared to an explode/e-bolt combo from anyone who can play a mage decently

2. Poison from DP'ed weps is so easily cure-able it doesn't really give me an advantage to carry one around.

3. Wrestling is very slightly OP when it comes to interrupts. Even with a fast wep like a kat. If I miss ONCE with anything, all of the damage I can do is negated by an easy g-heal. Its hard to stay on top of someone enough to get a kill as a dexer, and once you do all it takes is 1 miss to bring your damage back to square 1.

Maybe I'm being whiny about this one but I feel like even a poorly skilled mage has no real threat from even the best of dexers because of this.

4. Some people try to handle interrupts and other dexer problems (reactive, reflect) with a little supplemental magery. This seems to be a good, player skill based approach to the problem. If you have to keep consistent mana though, does this not make metal armors slightly useless? I'm afraid of the idea that everyone would have to PvP in leather, and then I ask myself if that's how the game was intended to be played

5. In about 4 seconds a mage can heal *65-70hp at range on a moving target or themselves. In the same amount of time, a dexer can heal (if the target doesn't get poisoned) approx. the same amount, on a stationary target, which really means that it ain't gonna happen in PvP. If he wants to do it on himself it takes 10 seconds, but he can still move. He also can't do it through poison. Since the argument starts break down into an "apples to oranges" situation, the basic point (that I'm happy to discuss further if someone REALLY disagrees with this) is that Mage cross healing and self healing is consistently better than bandages.

I may not have the specifics totally perfect, but I feel like the dexer's life is unbalanced. It's hard as **** to put up consistently good fights 1v1 and its pretty much a joke if you have a dexer in your group fighting in even number PvP or OCB.

Thoughts?

-Catman

[mikegmstr]

I'll save my OCB suggestions per staffs request. My point is that the mechanics are basically fine, no tele rings, no heat seekers, no tele running, none of that garbage. If you want that you can wait and play on the UOR side as that is all UOR or beyond implementations as far as I can remember. The gist of it is is that the mechanics are fine, the systems are not so fine. The goal, imo, should be to promote more sporadic and unplanned field fighting. The best way to do this IMO is to lessen restrictions on reds slightly and get people out and in the world. Increase PvE endgame, champ spawns, high end mobs, more overland spawn, more loot/very small chance for rare drops and higher end weps. Recalling to hyloth and deceit i'm fairly up in the air on, I could go either way tbh. We just need to get people out and in the world again, if you do that, people will flag grey, PKs will be chasing down farming groups, blues will come, some of them undoubedtly the ones with the stones to be in OCB, and the PvP will pick up.

Mechanics are fine, give people a reason to be out in the world, and they will fight each other, its pretty much a guarantee.

Huah,

Veis

This is the truth. People just need stuff to entertain themselves in game. That's all. Sure, there are mechanical tweaks that could be made, but it's not the underlying factor for why the place looks deserted now. People just need things to do..automated events, better PvE, less red restrictions etc, all that stuff encourages people to play the game.

I rarely log on anymore due to just not having the free time, but when I do, it typically consists of hanging around Shame with a few characters, maybe getting into the occasional skirmish with one of the same five players who are always at Shame. Eventually getting bored because no one else is on and logging out.
Also, I am for recalling to the islands simply because it provides something new for a lot of players. And that is really what is harming the population, a lack of new things to do. I have been here for over 6 months yet I've never been to Hyth or Deceit. Why? Mainly because I've spent enough time on this game looking for action, I'm not really interested in sailing all the way over there and wasting even more time to find that those places are just as deserted as everywhere else. It's hilarious that people are actually against recalling so that they can preserve some tiny aspect of the game that they cherish when the entire shard is dying right before their eyes. Yes, IPY is dying. The sooner people stop denying that fact, the sooner we can all gather together and try to resurrect it. I don't wish the shard to fail at all, and I'll probably continue to play in some capacity as long as there are some stragglers that remain, but lets not kid ourselves here.

[follower of Quast]

Meh..

I have faith that players will come back when/if the details that were posted under the thread "INFO" come true and happen soon. Players stop playing, but they still come back to check the forums on what is happening every now and then. It is only human to want to see what this new contact is all about so they login to try it out for themselves eventually.

Be Patient Citizens, continue macroing and playing other games in the meantime OR , Go outside... there is a world out there you know..

[Kalanmyr]

This is the truth. People just need stuff to entertain themselves in game. That's all. Sure, there are mechanical tweaks that could be made, but it's not the underlying factor for why the place looks deserted now. People just need things to do..automated events, better PvE, less red restrictions etc, all that stuff encourages people to play the game.

Thats exactly right. Give players things to do, places to explore, things to make, and ways to interact with one another (integrate the different systems together pvp,pvm,crafting,etc...) and that will bring players. Players are really all you need for good pvp, balance isn't the heart of the issue. Exploring the same 7 or so dungeons for 10 years gets old. I'd be happy being thrust into a brand new world with the same mechanics.

I see your point on the islands but I don't know if Im sold yet. New patch, Diablo 3 launch is passed and it was mediocre at best, school is out, and I will probably log on sometime.. so I think a population increase is imminent. Mostly because of the last reason ; ).

[African]

Cannot comprehend stupidity.

You play a dexer, why are you trying to be subject matter expert on how to fix mages.

Community feedback is great when it comes to new places, new monsters, etc. People who have no clue about pvp shouldn't be giving their 2 cents on how to adjust pvp mechanics.

[Veis Driance (Yew)]

I'd have to disagree with you Pierre. I don't make myself out to be a great PvPer by any means, but I do hold my own pretty well against mages 1v1. I play 1 character, a dexxer, I'm sure you all know me. Theres really only a few mages that I have trouble with on a consistent basis. HMU, black tea, azria/PW to name a few. I use high end weapons, generally a power fork and bow, (i prefer the bow for speed) and this keeps the mages on the defensive on a consistent basis. I agree it is frustrating to miss a swing and have all your dmg negated on a gheal, but I don't see any feasible way you can get around that without making dexxers too OP. 1v1 any well stocked dexxer should be able to keep an average to good mage on the defensive 1v1, it may take you a while to kill them, or they may recall out or run away, but that is a victory to me nonetheless.

[Veis Driance (Yew)]

Are you talking about me or Pierre, African? My feedback is pretty simple stuff, I didn't really read the thread too thoroughly but I don't think its wildly unrealistic to expect most people who PvP would agree Qstaffs are slightly unbalanced and mini heal could use a tweak.