dungeon recall

[theettinking]

Is there really no dungeon recall i have talked to 2 people playing the beta and they say that you cant recall out of a dungeon.

[Slayerik]

Yes, that is true. Good luck!

[Atma]

Wow, that could make things really interesting.

My thought of it is, your that lonely blue dungeon crawling, when suddenly you see the Reds on the horizon.

Instead of recalling out, you now have to hide and hope you don't get revealed.

It'll certainly put a twist on things.

[theettinking]

I was tossing this idea around in my skull and i personally dont like it but then again if there is dungeon recall and the pks roll in and want to get you one member of the gank squad will just cast harm on you tell your dead anyways.

[Kenny]

It also makes it so reds can't just mark every single monster spawn and just loop through the whole runebook. It makes the dungeons and the world more explored instead of *recall x 10... nothing... bored... log off* :)

[Virindi]

Anyone who played Revelation at launch knows that this is a bad idea.

Bring in all the Paladins and Detectives you want to, blues are nerfed to **** with no dungeon recall.

[Freight Elevator]

Anyone who played Revelation at launch knows that this is a bad idea.

Bring in all the Paladins and Detectives you want to, blues are nerfed to **** with no dungeon recall.

Yea but the Paladin's could make a difference. They can guard the entrance and reds have to get by them first. I think it could be interesting. Probably better to have it at the beginning and change later on if it doesn't work, rather than the other way around.

[Basia]

You're not going to keep reds out of dungeons. At least with no recall ability, it makes it all about skill. Reds can't gate in 20 of their murderous buddies and blues can't simply recall out when there's trouble. You want to crawl the dungeon and keep your loot? You gotta earn it.

[Acebeans]

Wow, I think this is something that needs to be changed big time.

[Pud.S]

and if you were thinking about abusing help / stuck after your screen goes black and white, don't count on it.

[Lear]

Blues are nerfed to **** with no dungeon recall.

Ahhhahahhh ahhhahahahhh
that makes me laugh so hard whenever I even think about it.

Blues being nerfed... makes me laugh so hard it hurts.

[leviathan]

I have mixed feelings towards this mechanic. Yes is does make it better in one aspect as you don't have to worry about the runebook pks, but then again this bottlenecks every dungeon. Now pks will just be waiting outside for you when your full of loot. What sucks even more is that friendly blue you meet while cutting your way through the dungeon is just going to log on his pk and irc his 10 buddies for a nice little meeting at the entrance when you are ready to depart. Maybe the paladin system will negate this, but I am quite skeptical.

[Virindi]

You're not going to keep reds out of dungeons. At least with no recall ability, it makes it all about skill. Reds can't gate in 20 of their murderous buddies and blues can't simply recall out when there's trouble. You want to crawl the dungeon and keep your loot? You gotta earn it.

Like I wrote.. anyone who played Revelation at launch knows this is a very bad idea. Even the Red PKs at Revelation were riding Ryan's ass to allow blues to recall out of a dungeon.

[Aarlock]

Have you guys looked at the Paladin penalties? A lot of people that continue to suggest that Paladins aren't going deter PKs really surprise me. I'm a lifelong red, and I can promise you I will be thinking about the possibility of getting trapped by a Paladin every time I go into a dungeon.

Revelation is also a piss poor example of how this should work. How many dungeons were there on Rev? Three? Moreover, the penalties on reds were essentially nothing, and skill gain was way too easy. And on top of all that, there was absolutely nothing to do but PK. With tougher skill gain, tough penalties if a Paladin drops you, and an awesome OvC and pirate system, you aren't going to have 70% of the shard going red in 5 days on their first characters like you saw on Rev.

[Virindi]

Yea but the Paladin's could make a difference. They can guard the entrance and reds have to get by them first. I think it could be interesting. Probably better to have it at the beginning and change later on if it doesn't work, rather than the other way around.

Guarding an entrance is ****ing boring, no one will do that.

The way Paladins and Detective work is that they show up AFTER the murder has already been done. (Orb of Holy Sight and forensic footprints)

[Virindi]

Have you guys looked at the Paladin penalties? A lot of people that continue to suggest that Paladins aren't going deter PKs really surprise me. I'm a lifelong red, and I can promise you I will be thinking about the possibility of getting trapped by a Paladin every time I go into a dungeon.

Revelation is also a piss poor example of how this should work. How many dungeons were there on Rev? Three? Moreover, the penalties on reds were essentially nothing, and skill gain was way too easy.

Stay away from Paladins - trapped pouches, a drop table macro, and cure/refresh potions makes you able to escape from anyone.

Edit: On second thought, you are right that Revelation is a piss poor example. As you stated, some people had 7x GMs on day 2 while others were just starting. It probably won't be that bad here until a month into the game. I'm probably mostly wrong about a lot of what I posted, sorry.

[Kyoto Kush]

This actually worked very well on Angel Island, I completely agree with it. More risk in farming like there should be.

[Iced Earth]

Overall, this is a good idea.

I think the way Revelation had it at first was great, but with 2 major flaws.

Revelation had it to where you couldn't recall/gate in or out of dungeons, but there were these Silver Exit Gates inside the dungeons on the different floors that would take you outside to the front of the dungeons. (These Exit Gates were not located conveniently RIGHT NEXT to a good money spawn either.)

Revelation had 2 things wrong with their system though, and there was much crying and it was changed to Recall/Gate out of dungeon was allowed.
1) These silver exit gates would change their location on the floor randomly. I don't think this was a good idea. The Exit Gates need to be at places ppl know they can run too reliably. I think what COULD be a cool idea tho, is if these Exit Gates Blinked in and out of existence every 30 seconds or so, and they would only appear for a 5 second window or something. THAT could get interesting hehehe.
2) The Silver exit gates took you to the exact same spot outside of the dungeon when you took them, and thus the scumbags would just amass and wait for the fresh meat to appear right in front of them. The cure for this obviously is for the exit gate to spit you out at a random spot like 12-15 screens outside of the dungeon.

[Acebeans]

Starting to get a little worried that the formula might be changing too much. The original IPY was so successful and adding new things like paladins, detectives etc is really cool but I don't think we should get to far away from what made IPY such a huge hit. Little things like gimped skill gain in houses, no recalling in and out of dungeons can really turn some of the old school vets away from the server. I for one will play the shard no matter what and stick with it but I'm afraid others won't be so vigilant.

[Violent Dave]

Let's look at what this mechanic does:

-Adds risk to farming from monsters
-Adds risk for blues farming from reds
-Decreases rate of farming
-Increases time needed to farm
-Increases profit for PKing

Basically the safest and fastest way to make money from dungeons at this point would be to camp the entrance as a PK. People coming out of the dungeon would be short on supplies and full of loot, possibly even injured. Since you're adding transit time to the farming experience and the best farming locations are deeper in dungeons, its more profitable and lower risk for you to PK at the door than it is to farm. Go with the following skill set:

Hiding
Stealth
Fencing
Anatomy
Healing
Magery
Resist

Hide at the door. Stealth away if Paladins show up. Fencing with poison to disrupt recall. Anatomy and healing for healing (derp). Magery as an added avenue of healing, trapping pouches, and recalling without fizzles. With people walking out the entrance every 5-10 minutes with around 15k you can net around 90-180k an hour depending on foot traffic with little to no risk if you're even remotely skilled.

Get a house nearby for dumping loot and insta-logging should you get in any real trouble and you can really add to your safety.

[Asno]

LOL
I cant wait for you to attack me :)
BRING BACK STATLOSS!!

[Domnu]

A good philosophy for playing IPY2:


The only certainty is that nothing is certain.

[K Fed]

This isn't a good idea. Group of four; two pks run through dungeon to flush newbs out, two wait just inside entrance with explode up. No option except to die.

[Colonel Shuffle]

I'm not a PKer and I don't have a problem with this system at all. It reminds me of when I was a newb back on OSI in 1998 and didn't know how to mark runes yet or recall. So, I would run like hell from Minoc to Covetous, hope to avoid PKs outside the entrance, run in, farm for a while (but not enough to make losing the loot I had earned really heartbreaking), then run like hell out of Covetous and hope to not get PKed on the way back to Minoc bank. I remember back then there were usually quite a few antis hanging around the entrance to Covetous, looking out for PKs and killing Harpies in the meantime. Those were fun days.

I do, however, like the idea of having gates on each dungeon level that will teleport a player to a random location in a predefined area outside the dungeon entrance. That way, it'll make it easier on blues farming in the lower dungeon levels to get out, so they don't have to run the gauntlet through the entire dungeon, and it would provide a chance of escape from PKs who wouldn't necessarily get teleported to the same location as the player they're chasing.

[Baltar]

People are forgetting the fact.. REDS CANT RECALL OR GATE, AT ALL.

Getting a GROUP of reds to meet up at a dungeon isnt going to be the breeze it was in old UO, its going to require transit time, commitment, etc.. And, the penalty being potentially running into a few paladins, if things go poorly for you.

This situation has way too many nuances for anyone to be crying foul just yet, lets see how it plays out. The blues cant still recall to the dungeon entrance, the reds have to walk/ship ride EVERYWHERE.

[Dirus]

I had a hard time with this at first, too. But the more I think about it the more I like this. It promotes deeper delving into dungeons. So many people go to the easy money spots - air ele room, harpy room for noobs, etc. If you go to the bottom floor of about any dungeon on any other server noone is there. With this the deeper you go the safer you are. Second, it promotes farming with friends, even a paladin friend. Who says the pally has to stay at the entrance and fend off murderers? I haven't heard they can't go into dungeons, so why not just bring a pally along to farm with you and help out if there is a pk group rolling through? Either way, more incentive to hang with friends and accentuate the "M" in MMO. I'll let you decide which "M" that is. Thirdly, I don't have another point. Other than quit whining. It is equally inconvenient for the blue and the pk. Although moreso the blue since murderers just can't recall.

[Pud.S]

People are forgetting the fact.. REDS CANT RECALL

Who said this is fact?

[Boogie]

"No recalling in or out? Wait at the entrance and let the loot heavy blues come to us!" -Every Red Player

Personally, I think no one recalls in. Blues only can recall out.

[Trancelod]

People are forgetting the fact.. REDS CANT RECALL OR GATE, AT ALL.

lol?

[tpopcaz]

I'm new here but I think a cool idea would be to put exit gates that spawn randomly at different locations that would send you to the entrance. This way no one knows exactly where the exit gates will be when, so if a blue finds one and is getting chased by reds he will have a chance to escape.

[Faded]

People are forgetting the fact.. REDS CANT RECALL OR GATE, AT ALL.

lol wtf? don't make things up. i haven't read or heard that anywhere.

i'm pretty sure you can't recall in to or out of any dungeons. you also can't recall on to or out of fire or ice island. other than that reds can recall everywhere, just like blues.

[Baltar]

lol wtf? don't make things up. i haven't read or heard that anywhere.

i'm pretty sure you can't recall in to or out of any dungeons. you also can't recall on to or out of fire or ice island. other than that reds can recall everywhere, just like blues.

http://azaroth.org/2010/10/17/10-in-10-paladins/

"1) We can restrict recall/gate/mark entirely for reds. They would now essentially be a lone wolf/wolfpack type character. Being a red becomes truly difficult again, though you’re free of statloss. This is the most effective option, and the one I’ll probably kick myself for not choosing if I don’t."

Doesnt seem like a guarantee.. but i dont think thats me making things up. Ill accept an apology when you get back online :) lol

[Faded]

i do concede to you sir. but i have not read anyone in beta saying it is in

[Jack]

That's just speculation from the blog... There's a lot of stuff on Az' blog that never got put in.

[Jabu]

Personally idc either way, but that would definitely end in massive dungeon entrance camping slash mule characters to hide/stealth/log after your main drops off the loot. But I like the idea of entrance camping for massive pvp fights, though I am quite sure this would be a big punch in the face to any new/non-hardcore players giving the server a try.

[russell]

you should be unable to mark in dungeons but be able to recall OUT of them.

[Iced Earth]

I think the way Revelation had it at first was great, but with 2 major flaws.

Revelation had it to where you couldn't recall/gate in or out of dungeons, but there were these Silver Exit Gates inside the dungeons on the different floors that would take you outside to the front of the dungeons. (These Exit Gates were not located conveniently RIGHT NEXT to a good money spawn either.)

Revelation had 2 things wrong with their system though, and there was much crying and it was changed to Recall/Gate out of dungeon was allowed. (This was the first thing that shard did to kill itself.)
1) These silver exit gates would change their location on the floor randomly. I don't think this was a good idea. The Exit Gates need to be at places ppl know they can run too reliably. I think what COULD be a cool idea tho, is if these Exit Gates Blinked in and out of existence every 30 seconds or so, and they would only appear for a 5 second window or something. THAT could get interesting hehehe.
2) The second thing wrong with the system was that the Silver exit gates took you to the exact same spot outside of the dungeon when you took them, and thus the scumbags would just amass and wait for the fresh meat to appear right in front of them. The cure for this obviously is for the exit gate to spit you out at a random spot like 12-15 screens outside of the dungeon.

[ReputableReprobate]

Little things like gimped skill gain in houses, no recalling in and out of dungeons can really turn some of the old school vets away from the server. I for one will play the shard no matter what and stick with it but I'm afraid others won't be so vigilant.

these are the features that i actually like the most!
i hope that people will pvp/experience the world with non-gm'd characters.
something about mindless afk macroing in a house until 7xgm status takes some of that innocent spirit of fun/adventure out of uo in my opinion.

[russell]

these are the features that i actually like the most!
i hope that people will pvp/experience the world with non-gm'd characters.
something about mindless afk macroing in a house until 7xgm status takes some of that innocent spirit of fun/adventure out of uo in my opinion. i would have to agree. since i started in 01 i was never able to macro in my house, i would either spar with my friends or run a macro script and 8x8 my boat. it worked like a charm, though. i don't see why that isn't possible on IPY2 unless it's a bannable offense. i don't plan on macroing this time around, though.

[Jabu]

Maybe if this has to be in they could have a few newbie-like dungeons where you can recall out (like despise, wrong?). Being in charge of a few people who have never played UO before, I know they will never be able to go dungeon hunting with this rule in before they gave up and uninstalled. These are people most worried about avoiding getting killed by the monsters, and having a guaranteed death trap back at the entrance makes the concept a bit laughable for them.

[Zaa]

There was no recall in the Dungeons on Siege Perilous and you never read about those people crying...Just get over it.

Now on the other hand I think that they should make it so you come out in random spots.So the pkes do not have the upper hand but a equal hand: By equal I mean if you pop out a random location then its up to the Pk, do they wait there and waste their time with you the Pvmer ,getting away with all the lootes...or do you pop out to a group of Pkes ia mass and get Looted to the bootes!

I like that idea. and it would level the playing ground to be completely fair as it would be random on who gets what. We will have to wait and see how its handled.

[ReputableReprobate]

Maybe if this has to be in they could have a few newbie-like dungeons where you can recall out (like despise, wrong?). Being in charge of a few people who have never played UO before, I know they will never be able to go dungeon hunting with this rule in before they gave up and uninstalled. These are people most worried about avoiding getting killed by the monsters, and having a guaranteed death trap back at the entrance makes the concept a bit laughable for them.

i would recommend that you take your pals to graveyards and orc forts to learn the ropes and to gain skill. theres less risk involved in these and some, such as jhelom actually hug right up on the guard zone so theres almost zero % chance to die from a pk while you learn.

[Jabu]

i would recommend that you take your pals to graveyards and orc forts to learn the ropes and to gain skill. theres less risk involved in these and some, such as jhelom actually hug right up on the guard zone so theres almost zero % chance to die from a pk while you learn.

I don't want to get into a big argument here about the nature of UO... but these are not 10-12 year old kids like a lot of us used to be when we first started. There is no magic left from defeating the skeleton at the grave yard by yourself for an adult interested in a great gaming experience.

The thrill of UO for many comes from the adrenaline rush that comes with pvping, or pvming and narrowly escaping encounters with other players. Without recall, there is no narrow escape for these noobs. There is only get PKd, or go play by yourself in some completely lame graveyard as you've suggested. There ought to be a middle-ground for these new players, but that is just my opinion.

[Maestro]

There is a middleground. It's a player ran game. Meaning it's up to the players to band together and say protect a dungeon from Reds/pking.

It's up to the devs to make rewards, if anything you could accept donations to enter or make off with the the gear reds will have. Either way with the way the game is set up, you will have a lot of time to do whatever inbetween skill caps. Why not form up and anti pk or whatever if you are worried.

[Jabu]

Probably because I would like to be able to play my own game while brand new players play theirs. They should have a chance to experience a risk/reward systems where they get pkd sometimes and get away with loot sometimes, but not be completely dependent on a group of UO babysitters. I digress, because I am aware of how pointless arguing this subject is. It will just have to be seen how the system works for them at launch.

[theettinking]

We can all argue and debate all damn day and night there isn't any 1 server going to make all of us happy i don't think i am going to play here please disregard this post.
Az has promised more **** then Obama no way he can deliver it all.

[Tenebrion]

+1 vote for making it so that reds can't recall/gate.

[Kyoto Kush]

There should be no recalling in dungeons, stop being a bunch of pus-sies you damn pus-sies. Good lord.

[brinn]

There should be no recalling in dungeons, stop being a bunch of pus-sies you damn pus-sies. Good lord.

trammel born or seige born

[prettycoolman]

Let's look at what this mechanic does:

-Adds risk to farming from monsters
-Adds risk for blues farming from reds
-Decreases rate of farming
-Increases time needed to farm
-Increases profit for PKing

Basically the safest and fastest way to make money from dungeons at this point would be to camp the entrance as a PK. People coming out of the dungeon would be short on supplies and full of loot, possibly even injured. Since you're adding transit time to the farming experience and the best farming locations are deeper in dungeons, its more profitable and lower risk for you to PK at the door than it is to farm. Go with the following skill set:

Hiding
Stealth
Fencing
Anatomy
Healing
Magery
Resist

Hide at the door. Stealth away if Paladins show up. Fencing with poison to disrupt recall. Anatomy and healing for healing (derp). Magery as an added avenue of healing, trapping pouches, and recalling without fizzles. With people walking out the entrance every 5-10 minutes with around 15k you can net around 90-180k an hour depending on foot traffic with little to no risk if you're even remotely skilled.

Get a house nearby for dumping loot and insta-logging should you get in any real trouble and you can really add to your safety.

Your going to kill someone with no tactics or eval?

This recall system is alot better imo makes it more based on skill.

[Septus]

There should be no recalling in dungeons, stop being a bunch of pus-sies you damn pus-sies. Good lord.

Having no recall in dungeons means newbies just move to another shard/game. Plain and simple. You say it worked great on Angel Island but the shard is dead.

If you're a pro, you probably have all the gear and regs you need anyway, know where and when to farm to avoid pk's, how to escape if pk's arrive, etc.

PK's always end up killing their own game. They rage when a few blues escape, and change the game until every blue quits and the entire food chain breaks down.

[Tank]

this mechanic is so bad for newer players or players who arent that good at pvp. In the end youre just going to have empty dungeons and then no body wins. New players will quit the server and find somewhere else they can farm and not be constantly ganked by groups of organized pks. Ill say again, the end result is empty, deserted dungeons and a low player base

[Faded]

Now on the other hand I think that they should make it so you come out in random spots.

this is a good idea. it would be very beneficial so that pk's don't just sit at the entrance, they should have to chase people down in the dungeon and work for their kills.

since people can't recall or gate it might be beneficial to have an exit on every level, but i don't know if thats too easy for people.

[brinn]

to bad it could depend on something like the moon phases and murder count-more of a random thing

[bubba]

Anyone who played Revelation at launch knows that this is a bad idea.

Bring in all the Paladins and Detectives you want to, blues are nerfed to **** with no dungeon recall.

Agreed

[Caviar]

I think this thread is filled to capacity. Its time to start another.

[Kyoto Kush]

Maybe we should make Trammel so all the newer players can feel more safe during their farming.

Or maybe a GUMP that asks them, "we know you are a noob who refuses to learn the game because you just like to farm off 80 gold monsters forever considering you will never put yourself in a dangerous situation while hunting your shiny pixel crack, would you like to disable the attack about to be let loose upon your ass by <insert random red char name>?" and then they can just decline the PK attempt all together.

And to Septus, the only reason it is dead is because the population wouldn't grow because it wasn't known. That shard had a 200ish average for a while that was basically some of the most fun I have ever had in UO. They didn't advertise or have a well built name. Hopefully I am thinking IPY will be the bridge for us as far as being well coded and scripted like AI was, but also have the large/active of people that something like Hybrid has.

[Stigmas]

Your posts are really starting to look more like trolling then constructive feed back. AI was a broken system that would get noobs pked and vet players could farm dungeons for 20k in 5min with no risk of getting pked.

[Kyoto Kush]

That last one actually was more of a trolling post, just because of the ridiculousness of these arguments.

There are already so many systems being put in place for PK/Red control, and personally I just think it is going overboard now. If you are in a dungeon farming, and another player comes in to kill you, just either fight them, or run away and escape, or hang with more people so it's harder to get killed, why are those not options? How hard is it to teleport and run from someone if you don't want to fight them? I don't believe in making adjustments to cater to noobs when normal functions of a game give you more than enough power to handle it yourself. If you don't understand how to do it, then just shut up and practice how to do it until you can. Don't add in mechanics that will have everyone just finding ways to stay away from each other and farm solo and not interact with the community while getting their gold.

[Stigmas]

You do realize that no recall is the added mechanic here right? "not interact with the community while getting their gold." is exactly what no recall is going to do when farming obscure overland spawns is safer and faster then dungeons.

[Baltar]

You do realize that no recall is the added mechanic here right? "not interact with the community while getting their gold." is exactly what no recall is going to do when farming obscure overland spawns is safer and faster then dungeons.

Or increase community interaction when you're at the bank with 4 or 5 buds and all agree you wanna get to 3rd level shame together.

[Kyoto Kush]

I see it the way Baltar does, not the way Stigmas does.

[Stigmas]

farming is normally what people do when there friends are not online and much prefer to going pvping when people are together. Also in uo around 1999 you didn't need a grab buds at the bank you could just go to a dungeon and meet up with people already farming and make new friends. Really thats what id like to see happen again.

[Pud.S]

Also in uo around 1999 you didn't need a grab buds at the bank you could just go to a dungeon and meet up with people already farming and make new friends. Really thats what id like to see happen again.

This player needs a time machine in order to play 2011 UO.

[Septus]

Or increase community interaction when you're at the bank with 4 or 5 buds and all agree you wanna get to 3rd level shame together.

For most, farming is a chore that has to be done to get whatever items you need. Going with 5 people to shame makes NO sense when you can make 10x as much in a SAFER location. Even PvM'ers consider efficiency when they farm. They're of the "collector/hoarder" mindset when they play, so they'll farm the most efficient spots. If reds can just roll them at dungeons and paladins are only notified after the fact, they won't farm there (or on IPY at all for that matter). Seriously I think you guys are undervaluing the PvM population. Yeah for PvP'ers this seems more exciting, because it forces more PvP (except 9/10 of players don't like PvP, just look at any MMO), but in the end it'll mean less sheep -> less wolves -> less anti's -> only die hards remaining.

And kyoto kush, give it up man, AI just boned it's PvM population and subsequently died. Shard was a joke.

[Baltar]

For most, farming is a chore that has to be done to get whatever items you need. Going with 5 people to shame makes NO sense when you can make 10x as much in a SAFER location.

And kyoto kush, give it up man, AI just boned it's PvM population and subsequently died. Shard was a joke.

Im really curious what all these extremely lucrative farming locations outside dungeons you are referring to.. Graveyards? Orc Forts? Theres like less than 10 total of those in the whole game. Minoc spawn, maybe? So what? People will actually USE the overworld? Is that such a bad thing?

[Stigmas]

The devs determine what the over land spawns are, but theirs going to be a lot of ways to make gold out of dungeons like fishing and portals. Its not a bad thing if people use over wold spawns but whats the point of nerfing dungeons into nothing.

[Baltar]

The devs determine what the over land spawns are, but theirs going to be a lot of ways to make gold out of dungeons like fishing and portals. Its not a bad thing if people use over wold spawns but whats the point of nerfing dungeons into nothing.

I don't think thats the goal here, its to have appropriate risk for that advantage of the better loots and mobs.. I can tell you, if PvMers do what they do in every other game, which is grouping up, they will do just fine. Solo PvMers will have a disadvantage, I don't think anyones arguing that, but they have a disadvantage in all situations. Also, because Paladin has NO NEGATIVE repercussions on PvM.. I really think youll see alot of these PvMers making their chars into Pallys just to scare reds away.

If you have 4 PvMers in Shame Blood eles and 4 reds stroll in.. and all 4 of those PvMers are Paladins, the reds are going to be scared to death cause, they dont even have to fight well, if they all just EB one of the reds, BAM, that guys gotta pay for every kill.

I do not feel like we are killing it, at all.

[SaiKoro]

well are dongeons designed to be a group thing or is this soloable? i would be very disppointed if its soloable too easily. I kinda like the idea to organize your group, do the preparation and then lets go pwn some dongeon. And like it was said in another thread, crafters could very affected by ''recall in dongeon'' since all they do is craft things to have money, lots of money,,,,they dont go into dongeon..the PvMer does! I find recall in dongeon ''abusive'' since all you could do is: clear trash mob...recall, banking **** then recall back into dongeon...rince and repeat....and im sure this formula earns way too much more money compared to a player who would have dedicated his character for crafting purpose. so Isay if we dont want to kill our dear crafters, the ''no recall in dongeon'' mechanic has to be there!

[Septus]

If you have 4 PvMers in Shame Blood eles and 4 reds stroll in.. and all 4 of those PvMers are Paladins, the reds are going to be scared to death cause, they dont even have to fight well, if they all just EB one of the reds, BAM, that guys gotta pay for every kill.


That's not even close to true. If they don't sync the eb's, the reds will heal right through it.

Anyway I'm not willing to talk theory because it's obviously getting repetitive. I don't think there will be enough skilled PvP'er paladins WAITING for reds in order to keep PvM'ers from being driven off the shard. There's no profit in it. If you notify paladins when reds ENTER a dungeon (instead of after a kill when the PvM'er is already screwed), the system might have a better chance of success.