Will there be Razor or not?

[Soulblighter]

Still awaiting clarification on this. ;)

[Az]

Blocking Razor isn't possible.

Unless you go down some sort of Punkbuster-ish route, which I won't ever even entertain.

[abm]

Yes there will be Razor because I am not Hitler.

Fixed. .........

[Az]

It'd actually be quite easy to do and I've had it proposed to me multiple times. But in an age where your privacy and freedoms are being walked on, even specifically in the area of computers, computer games, computer software - I would never, ever push the idea forward that it's okay for anyone running any service of any kind to watch anything going on inside your computer.

I have no business watching, in any way, what's happening on your computer. In any way. Whether or not I would actually be completely fair and impartial and never look at anything that wasn't exactly what we were looking for, etc. It's plain not okay to propagate the idea that it's acceptable for that sort of thing to happen.

Which, FYI, is why you should hate World of Warcraft.

[Brogina]

Which, FYI, is why you should hate World of Warcraft.

Not because the game sucks and is infested with tweens?

[Az]

No. That's just called popularity.

You might want to hate them because they specifically design every system in the game to be as addictive to those tweens as possible, though.

[Brogina]

.... Was supposed to be a joke. In hindsight guess it wasnt very funny.

But ya , i hate wow for many reasons most of which revolve around specific gameplay elements, economic issues and shard distribution. .

[Az]

I know it was a joke. My response was tongue in cheek.

[Soulblighter]

Ah, ok. I thought Razor was kinda built into RunUO and could be disabled as opposed to disallowed.

[Az]

No, Razor is a difficult problem to tackle.

There are ways that you could go about it, but they're impractical.

[Soulblighter]

Bah.

Well, I will still make my triple-spell macros. Enjoy the spam, fuckers. :D

[Nateh8sYou]

Your views on personal privacy have given me a greater respect for you

[Faded]

Bah.

Well, I will still make my triple-spell macros. Enjoy the spam, fuckers. :D

ghey, if razor is going to be used i don't know if i even want to play then.

[Az]

Sorry dude, but 100% of UO shards, free or EA, are going to greatly disappoint you in that case.

[Rogue Hippo]

Its too bad there's no easy way to block Razor and macroing. IMO, Razor is big detriment to the game. Back in original UO, most people played dexxers because raising magery and resist was a pain in the ass. But that made the true mages famous because they were rare and magery was so powerful. I remember the first guy I saw cast earthquake and fuck up a dozen orcs through a wall... it blew my mind! Now everyone can make a GM tank mage in their sleep. I've heard people say "I can't pvp yet, I only have 92 resist. I gotta macro." Its too bad.

[Az]

I used to PvP with like 75 resist.

[abm]

I normally get it to 90 and let it GM itself over time.

[Budikah]

I was always depressed that people just end up skipping on playing the game to skill-up. I used to have fun doing it... but it makes no sense if macroing gives a faster yield without any of the effort.

[Brogina]

Consider me in the camp of 'against macros"

[Soulblighter]

Its too bad there's no easy way to block Razor and macroing. IMO, Razor is big detriment to the game. Back in original UO, most people played dexxers because raising magery and resist was a pain in the ass. But that made the true mages famous because they were rare and magery was so powerful.

What's that got to do with Razor, though? It is quite possible to macro your way to GM magery and resist with EZ Macros. Hell, now that they added the "bandage self" macro you can do it with a stapler on your keyboard. Cast spell on self, bandage self, meditate.

The reason it used to be a hell of a lot slower is that there was no meditation back then. (I think people often overlook this huge factor in the mage-friendly modern UO.)


I remember the first guy I saw cast earthquake and fuck up a dozen orcs through a wall... it blew my mind!

You must have been high, because earthquake doesn't work like that ;)


I was always depressed that people just end up skipping on playing the game to skill-up. I used to have fun doing it... but it makes no sense if macroing gives a faster yield without any of the effort.

I think I'd been playing UO for 2 years before I GMed a single skill. I would farm Ophidians with blade spirit on my mage; he had hiding, tracking, all kinds of stuff.

I think the problem nowadays is that mages have to pick up 2 extra skills, meditation and eval. And the fact that there is eval means that everyone needs resist. Ditto for dexers and anat... when they added these extra skills, pvp became faster, but they also limited flexibility, because nobody can really compete without them.

And how the fuck are you gonna raise eval and anat without macroing? :) Sure, you could make a randomly-targeted eval macro and have it run 24/7 everywhere you go, but sooner or later it will bite you in the ass.

The other thing is that not everyone really has the time to masquerade as a noob and farm orcs. We're all grownups now and time is money. The best use of your time is to mule your way to a house, and macro while you work and sleep, and then play when you can.

[redHusarz]

I would enjoy this game so much more if there was no Razor.

[redHusarz]

I have no business watching, in any way, what's happening on your computer. In any way. Whether or not I would actually be completely fair and impartial and never look at anything that wasn't exactly what we were looking for, etc. It's plain not okay to propagate the idea that it's acceptable for that sort of thing to happen.

Does that go for all 3rd party programs such as EUO which allow you to gather resources unattended and auto loot? Just curious what your stance is on that kind of stuff. Will you be banning or monitoring it? It's my #1 deterrent from playing long term.

[Budikah]

I enjoyed Razor for its simple macro features and the nice hotkeys/counters/last target macros. Mostly the fact that it was easier to use than the shitty old UO options menu. I think using it to gather resources is pretty detestable.

Though, I am grateful for it when it comes time to make cloth from wool.

[Az]

We're monitoring unattended resource gathering very closely. It will be strictly against the rules.

[bubba]

Is unattended macroing for skill gain allowed?

[Az]

Yes. Just no EUO, please.

[Jay]

Does that go for all 3rd party programs such as EUO which allow you to gather resources unattended and auto loot? Just curious what your stance is on that kind of stuff. Will you be banning or monitoring it? It's my #1 deterrent from playing long term.

You don't need to monitor someones PC to work out when someone is gathering resources unattended. A gm just has to walk up to a miner recalling from spot to spot and mining and say "hey you there are you unattended macroing? and when their answer is kal ort por you have your answer.

[Az]

Well, our tracking is a bit more sophisticated than that but... yeah. ;)

You certainly don't need to be watching anyone's computer, no.

[Basia]

This thread takes me back to being 16 and stuffing cig butts into my keyboard to macro.

[abm]

I used to use a pile of coins to hold down the keys.

[Bobby Digital]

Damn I thought there was going to be no Razor. That is bad news.

Using Razor for PvP Combos should be banned somehow. That is the only complaint I have with the program

[Pariah]

So using UOE is a bannable offense even if you are not using it for purposes you deem off limits? I remember using UOE back in the day and loving it, but I never used it to fast walk, or whatever else crazy it did. I just used it for the same features UOA ultimately ended up having. Razor sucks.

[Nihilus]

Now I don't know all the ins and outs of how Razor works but if it came down to I'd rather disable all built in UO macro/keyboard shortcut commands in the UOclient COMPLETELY if it would help prevent people using Razor, and just allow people to use the keyboard for chat only. So basically force everyone to use the mouse for everything LOL

1: not sure if it would actually stop Razor working
2: just about every PvP nut would rage over this im sure.

But thats my oppinion.

[abm]

Razor surely isn't *that* bad? Realistically not every single pvper will use it to full automate their pvp battles. At the end of the day a good pvper will win with or without razor. Flame on.

[Jay]

Personally glad razor is in, Whilst I know there are ways people can use razor and other programs on bots etc, for the honest people it is a good addition. I'm sure there will be a way to combat people using it incorrectly/illegally so I'm happy it is in. I love oldschool uo, but playing without UOA or Razor is not something I miss at all personally.

[abm]

Personally glad razor is in, Whilst I know there are ways people can use razor and other programs on bots etc, for the honest people it is a good addition. I'm sure there will be a way to combat people using it incorrectly/illegally so I'm happy it is in. I love oldschool uo, but playing without UOA or Razor is not something I miss at all personally.

Us Australians think the same.

[Soulblighter]

I think people are confusing UOE and EUO. UOE hasn't been updated in 10 years and will not work, lol. And it only did about 10 things, a few of which were hackish (fastwalk, delete item) and the rest were added to the client (last target, self target).

EUO is EasyUO, a scripting tool which can do pretty much anything, and I heard from someone theoretically in the know that people were shown to be using it essentially as an aimbot for group pvp on IPY1, but I'll leave it at that.

[Pariah]

I think people are confusing UOE and EUO. UOE hasn't been updated in 10 years and will not work, lol. And it only did about 10 things, a few of which were hackish (fastwalk, delete item) and the rest were added to the client (last target, self target).

EUO is EasyUO, a scripting tool which can do pretty much anything, and I heard from someone theoretically in the know that people were shown to be using it essentially as an aimbot for group pvp on IPY1, but I'll leave it at that.

Yep, you are correct. I was thinking UOE ...I didn't even know EUO existed. I read that razor is shit, and that UOE/UOA is/was much better because razor is slow as hell arming and disarming and what not.

[dropya]

Yep, you are correct. I was thinking UOE ...I didn't even know EUO existed. I read that razor is shit, and that UOE/UOA is/was much better because razor is slow as hell arming and disarming and what not.

The main thing that EUO can do over razor is rails. Rails make it so you move to a spot and gather or whatever then move to a different spot and do whatever. Razor isn't really slower and EUO and razor can "aimbot" also

[Brogina]

So if razor is in then i assume sallos is too?

[dropya]

So if razor is in then i assume sallos is too?

Why not? Its supper crappy and like 5 people have used it in that few years lol.

[Brogina]

Its great for pvp; auto heal, autohit and whatnot. On hybrid people who use razor over sallos dont last long.

[dropya]

Its great for pvp; auto heal, autohit and whatnot. On hybrid people who use razor over sallos dont last long.

Guess they just don't know that you can do that in Razor also...

[Brogina]

Guess they just don't know that you can do that in Razor also...

There is a lot you cant do in razor that you can in sallos (pvp wise) Check out this discussion in divinity message board.

http://www.uodivinity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26234&page=2

Personally i want it gone , i think its cheating. But if razor is in , might as well use it for the advantage.

[dropya]

There is a lot you cant do in razor that you can in sallos (pvp wise) Check out this discussion in divinity message board.

http://www.uodivinity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26234&page=2

Personally i want it gone , i think its cheating. But if razor is in , might as well use it for the advantage.

Yea I didn't read the whole thing but I agree that Sallos should be out but I like Razor... If Sallos is in I would probably take a look at it again.

[Brogina]

Id recommend it. I remember having my ass handed to me time and time again on hybrid with my first mage. Finally i inquired as to why this was and someone mentioned sallos. I tried it and begun to fare much better. Especially considering it throws splosion pots for you :). But ya , i really hope az stops it.

[Soulblighter]

"On hybrid people who use razor over sallos dont last long."

Well then I hope nobody from Hybrid is bringing that bullshit here.

[Jay]

Sallos is a better client, things just run better on it targetting, pulling bars, macros, but at the end of the day I really couldn't give two shits whats in or out... I'll adapt to whatever is there and just be happy I'm playing the bloody game. Coming from hybrid I'm sick to death of hearing peoples arguments about Sallos vs Razor unfortunately it looks like IPY is adding the third dynamic, original client vs razor vs sallos... lol :( just play the goddamn game.

[abm]

Sallos is a better client, things just run better on it targetting, pulling bars, macros, but at the end of the day I really couldn't give two shits whats in or out... I'll adapt to whatever is there and just be happy I'm playing the bloody game. Coming from hybrid I'm sick to death of hearing peoples arguments about Sallos vs Razor unfortunately it looks like IPY is adding the third dynamic, original client vs razor vs sallos... lol :( just play the goddamn game.

/agree

ps. where in Syd are you (no I won't stalk you). I hail from the east.

[Jay]

/agree

ps. where in Syd are you (no I won't stalk you). I hail from the east.

I live in the shire... Work in Pyrmont

[abm]

Nice drive/train ride O.o

Glad to see there will be at least one other person on when I play ;)

[Jay]

oh god the train ride is HORRIBLE

actually it's been a bit better lately first few months it was just wall to wall packed every freakin day but it's been alright lately...

Anyway yeah I'll be on :D Your forum name is familliar for some reason.

[abm]

Hybrid?
Metropolis?

[Jay]

Maybe hybrid, definately not metropolis

[abm]

I was a forum mod there for over a year and took part in a few known guilds.. When did you play?

[Jay]

On and off since '04 probably mostly around 04-05 and a little bit in the past 6 months...

Logged on today to find my guilds screwed me over... 2 Guys been playing on there with for a cpl of years have looted me dry. What better time for IPY2 to be coming? lol... pretty dirty bout it tbh... Probably spent 4 or 5 hours a day talking to these 2 guys in skype for the past year and they've had my accounts for the better part of that time... NFI what made them decide it was time to loot me dry.

[abm]

Not a nice feeling :(

I played mostly around that time too. I think you may remember the guild GAY?

I haven't logged in for a while but still have my account(s), unfortunately all of my properties went idoc and goodbye. I've been craving some UO for a while but didn't want to go back to Hybrid for a few reasons and so news of IPY2 = gg.

[Jay]

Not a nice feeling :(

I played mostly around that time too. I think you may remember the guild GAY?

I haven't logged in for a while but still have my account(s), unfortunately all of my properties went idoc and goodbye. I've been craving some UO for a while but didn't want to go back to Hybrid for a few reasons and so news of IPY2 = gg.

Yeah the only thing they didn't get was my house because the house was owned by a random character of mine on an empty account and they didnt have the details to that blank account... So I'm selling that thing off now and shoving the gold in the bank never to see the light of day again. Lost pure white polar bear amongst other stuff... Not cool, but in another way I have no remaining ties to that server whatsoever, I would have had to split my time a little between IPY2 and Hybrid just to stay playing with this guild cos I'm a loyal kinda person.... So they screwed me over at the right time :)

and yeah I remember the GAY guild... All in pink and stuff. Anyway sleep time.

[keuse]

It would be awesome if it was possible to have no razor and we would actually have to double click on things..
but then others would find a way around this and be kings amongst children in terms of pvp ability.. at least w/ razor it is equal playing field for the most part.

[phatal]

I personally don't have an issue with razor unless you start talking about how people were able to create a macro to dump on one specific person with a designed macro simultaneously. It took it way to far. That was a major reason why a lot of people were complaining about razor to be removed. Took all the former skill out of it. Some things like uoa did and razor made things easier because man clicking a million times on specific items got so bad it would give you carpal tunnel lol. However I am not sure there is anyway for you to stop people from doing that hence thats a major problem with having razor. I mean I personally would like to hear Az's thoughts to it because it seems to be a running problem on a lot of shards, it just takes away from overall gameplay.

[Jay]

I personally don't have an issue with razor unless you start talking about how people were able to create a macro to dump on one specific person with a designed macro simultaneously. It took it way to far. That was a major reason why a lot of people were complaining about razor to be removed. Took all the former skill out of it. Some things like uoa did and razor made things easier because man clicking a million times on specific items got so bad it would give you carpal tunnel lol. However I am not sure there is anyway for you to stop people from doing that hence thats a major problem with having razor. I mean I personally would like to hear Az's thoughts to it because it seems to be a running problem on a lot of shards, it just takes away from overall gameplay.

This is one pro sallos point at least. People will argue all day that sallos has too many good features, but at least you cant create bot like macroes that sync for you on sallos. But again I dont care what is in place as long as there is a way to handle cheating on any client, it's a scary thing though because people will always try and use things the way they arnt intended to gain an upper hand in a 13 year old game and ruin others experience :(

[phatal]

This is one pro sallos point at least. People will argue all day that sallos has too many good features, but at least you cant create bot like macroes that sync for you on sallos. But again I dont care what is in place as long as there is a way to handle cheating on any client, it's a scary thing though because people will always try and use things the way they arnt intended to gain an upper hand in a 13 year old game and ruin others experience :(

Yeah definitely I mean everyone always tries to gain an advantage and I can't say I haven't back in the day or on player run shards. There always people who have had more resources etc than other people or whatever to that degree. Syncing through razor is straight garbage though, it literally destroys all reason competing in groups on any shard for any reason. Other than that razor is great in my book =)

[Jay]

my point exactly. I'm no saint, I found bugs back in the day by the hundreds, but nothing to the extent of exploiting a 3rd party program thats there to help me to the point of auto syncing with razor, nothing that effected my odds of winning, just funny shit.

[abm]

I used Sallos back in the day to play Tetrinet and that other game on it. Was freaking awesome.