Starting rates for Wood and Ingots.

[Woodlife]

What's the standard Ingot running for these days?

Wood price?



Any suggestions?

[Basia]

Are you talking from NPC vendors or players? Cause I'm pretty sure the saturation of crafters will determine the pricing amounts.

[Woodlife]

Are you talking from NPC vendors or players? Cause I'm pretty sure the saturation of crafters will determine the pricing amounts.

Player to player.

I'm just wondering what it was going for in the last shard you played. 7gp was what they went for on Baja.

You're right though, It's going to be how high or low the demand is.

[abm]

Supply and demand is an economic model of price determination in a market. It concludes that in a competitive market, the unit price for a particular good will vary until it settles at a point where the quantity demanded by consumers (at current price) will equal the quantity supplied by producers (at current price), resulting in an economic equilibrium of price and quantity.

The four basic laws of supply and demand are:


If demand increases and supply remains unchanged then higher equilibrium price and quantity.
If demand decreases and supply remains the same then lower equilibrium price and quantity.
If supply increases and demand remains unchanged then lower equilibrium price and higher quantity.
If supply decreases and demand remains the same then higher price and lower quantity.


Wikipedia is our friend.

But as Basia said before if everyone becomes a lumberjack then consider your time somewhat wasted. I am going to hold off on making a crafter to see what will be needed in the first month or so after launch.

[Pud.S]

Wikipedia is our friend.

I've heard this same quote spoken to me irl. You must be in I.T.

[Jack Straw]

Most shard birth's I've seen have had ingots at 15 gp per :eek:

[Jay]

Most shard birth's I've seen have had ingots at 15 gp per :eek:

1 hour in?

[redHusarz]

rev is a new server and the rates for ingots are already down to 4.5g each.
I think that's lower than selling to npcs (5g) but you can only sell a limited amount to them.

[Jack Straw]

1 hour in?

On Divinity I made a killing selling ingots at 10 gp per because it was considered a deal. Maybe this was because it was before the population boom, but all I know is that people thought my pricing to be fair and even generous in some cases.

Don't underestimate the demand for these resources at the birth of shards, everyone wants to be the first GM smith and the profit you would make off of that venture far outweighs the amount you'd spend on the ingots even at 10 gp per.

It really all depends on how the prices get started off. If people instantly start selling their ingots at 6-7.5 gp per then everyone will only expect that price and anything else would be laughed at. Since a shard is so new though it would be easy to as 10-12 gp per ingot and get plenty of buyers as long as no one is undercutting your prices consistently.

The demand for ingots at the start of a shard is incredibly high--higher than it will ever be again. No one has their own large mass of ingots and there are many people wanting to train smithy/tinkering. I'd consider myself a fool to sell them for any less than 10 gp per until about a month or so in.

[Jay]

On Divinity I made a killing selling ingots at 10 gp per because it was considered a deal. Maybe this was because it was before the population boom, but all I know is that people thought my pricing to be fair and even generous in some cases.

Don't underestimate the demand for these resources at the birth of shards, everyone wants to be the first GM smith and the profit you would make off of that venture far outweighs the amount you'd spend on the ingots even at 10 gp per.

It really all depends on how the prices get started off. If people instantly start selling their ingots at 6-7.5 gp per then everyone will only expect that price and anything else would be laughed at. Since a shard is so new though it would be easy to as 10-12 gp per ingot and get plenty of buyers as long as no one is undercutting your prices consistently.

The demand for ingots at the start of a shard is incredibly high--higher than it will ever be again. No one has their own large mass of ingots and there are many people wanting to train smithy/tinkering. I'd consider myself a fool to sell them for any less than 10 gp per until about a month or so in.

Yeah I get the reason behind high prices on ingots early on... My main concern is getting money as fast as possible to get a kick ass house spot, I dont think people will have enough money on day one to fund 30k for my first house from buying my ingots.

I'll definately be farming me some ingots after I get my house though to make some gold.

[Jack Straw]

You may be surprised how fast people can farm gold. If a guild wants a guild blacksmith GM'd as soon as possible they'll do anything to get that person ingots. The key aspect of mining is that you'll be hard pressed to find someone who actually enjoys mining, but a lot of people enjoy farming gold and are very efficient at it.

Some people find their time investment to be better spent farming gold in order to get their ingots than actually harvesting those ingots themselves. Their farming efficiency and mining laziness is your friend as an ingot supplier and they'll drop good gold in order to get your ingots to get their smith done. They know that that smith will eventually pay for itself, even if they end up dropping 100k+ on ingots if you're one of the first GM smith's on the shard you'll probably make 100k+ in a week on a decently placed vendor.

The most important thing to note here is that people really only buy bulk ingots to gain skill. After you're GM you can mine ingots for about an hour and get around 2k to last you a few days. Even if they still prefer to buy their ingots they'll be buying less than when they were skilling up.

Edit: I think anyone who sells ingots for less than 10 gp per (and I think that is a deal) for the first month and maybe two months is short changing himself/herself/zerself and the rest of the mining community.

Edit 2: Not to mention it won't be easy to get ingots. I'm sure there will be plenty of people thinking it is a lot easier to farm ingots off of dead miner corpses than mountains. There won't be many people around to protect those miners for a long time :D

[Jay]

See that's the problem though. It depends on the market... If I know a certain monster I'm farming spawns 250 gp each kill and I can down 50 in an hour I know I'm expecting to make around 12.5k in that hour... I'm always going to get the same gp off that critter... Whereas if I'm mining/selling ingots I have to factor in how much people are actually paying, and can I find a buyer? On things like rushing to get a particular house placement the time spent looking for a buyer and then finding out I'm getting 4gp/per less than I hoped for could make a huge difference.

[Jack Straw]

It definitely isn't for everyone :)

Which, by the way, is another reason the price probably won't be low. Then again.. if everyone were to follow my logic then:
A) A lot of people will farm ingots
B) The price would be low
C) My logic would end up being wrong

The world is fundamentally confusing when it comes to anything but exact moments of the present.

[Jay]

It's such a risk no matter which way I look at it really. I am pretty good at farming fast but depending on the initial launch date and how many people show up I really dunno what is going to be the best money making method on day 1 to secure good house spots. Go farm and run the risk of over crowded dungeons and people just snaking your loot... Go mining and run the risk of too many miners having a) no veins to mine and b) no one to sell to...

[Brogina]

It definitely isn't for everyone :)

Which, by the way, is another reason the price probably won't be low. Then again.. if everyone were to follow my logic then:
A) A lot of people will farm ingots
B) The price would be low
C) My logic would end up being wrong

The world is fundamentally confusing when it comes to anything but exact moments of the present.

What other moments are there?

[Jack Straw]

Metaphysics on a UO forum?! (for iRC only!)

We're discussing ingots!

[Brogina]

Metaphysics on a UO forum?!

Time falls into the metaphysics category? Einstein is going to be pissed when he finds out.

[Jack Straw]

Hm. Discourse on time and space is inherently metaphysical. Math can be metaphysics :)

See: Critique of Pure Reason and Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics
(There are so many more, I just love him and can't say I'm well versed in many others)

Or just go here and search to your hearts content: http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.html
More exactly this one can help (however you'll find many many entries in the contents, even an explanation of the thoughts presented in the above mentioned books): http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/
It is actually a pretty reliable source for quick look ups.

Edit: Einstein was also pissed when Quantum Mechanics became considered a science :(


Back to ingots/wood, PM me instead if you'd like to continue.

:D

[Brogina]

hate to break it to you, but time dilation is measurable and quantifiable. Its not metaphysics.

[Jack Straw]

Someone needs to read the links I sent him and to read my posts! Not going to say any names!


Editsky:


What other moments are there?

For the record.. Questions on the existence of time outside of present moments are purely metaphysical. :)

My last words on the subject outside of PM's!

[Brogina]

Yup. Why i basically said there were no other moments. We are talking about different things.

Ps i dont need your mickey mouse links.

[Jay]

*cries* I just wanted to talk about ingots.

[Pud.S]

Here's one

How many ingots would you charge, if you could, for a Miner's license on Ice Isle?

100 ingots as weekly dues priced too high? Temporary 1 day license 25 ingots.

[Jack Straw]

I would charge way more than 100 ingots. 500 per week, minimum. Unless they know some Paladins, then maybe 100.

[Jay]

Here's one

How many ingots would you charge, if you could, for a Miner's license on Ice Isle?

100 ingots as weekly dues priced too high? Temporary 1 day license 25 ingots.

100 a week is chicken feed... I'd be making them pay hourly. Basically I found someone mining I'd say "50 ingots for the hour" or more... If they didn't pay, dead. If they did pay... They get the hour. If they are still there an hour later it's another 50.

[Jack Straw]

You guys are far too kind; you call yourselves PK's? Psh!

[Pud.S]

Maybe you pull out a journal and write them a citation, so they could pay later.

Meter's always running.

[Jack Straw]

Personally I'd charge them 200 ingots per hour and then incognito and kill them in 30 minutes because they'd be happily carrying so many ingots on them thinking they were safe. This way I'd be guaranteed ingots and could possibly score a very large number as well. Its a dog eat dog world.

[Pud.S]

You guys are far too kind; you call yourselves PK's? Psh!

I don't think you read this week's essay, referring us pks to parasites.

[Jack Straw]

I don't think you read this week's essay, referring us pks to parasites.

I was implying that you weren't being parasitic enough!

(See: my method of ingot tax collection)

[Pud.S]

Easy Killer, she's still fragile.

Read essay about clubbing all hearts spades diamonds

[Jack]

Yup. Why i basically said there were no other moments.

Wait: when did you say that?

[Gruumsh]

I want to play IPY 2.0 NOW ! :(

[Brogina]

Wait: when did you say that?

When i said "What other moments are there?" Statement in the form of a question. -10 intuition points.

[Jack]

When i said "What other moments are there?" Statement in the form of a question. -10 intuition points.


Then would it be fair to say that you said it in... a moment other than this present one?


:cool:

[Jack Straw]

/thread

I hereby declare Jack the victor.

[Brogina]

Then would it be fair to say that you said it in... a moment other than this present one?


:cool:

nothing exists byt the immediate moment....... the past was but an immediate moment and the future is an illusion. Both concepts are due to consciousness and memory. The past is an immediate moment held inside our minds, the future is a concept created by our minds. Nothing exists but now.

[Pud.S]

Booze. edit. booze.

[Jay]

nothing exists byt the immediate moment....... the past was but an immediate moment and the future is an illusion. Both concepts are due to consciousness and memory. The past is an immediate moment held inside our minds, the future is a concept created by our minds. Nothing exists but now.

This makes me sad.

[Severus]

I'm going to be very surprised if any method of player to player interaction turns out to be the best way to make money the first few days on the shard. If I go out and mine 5,000 ingots and try to sell them in town, I highly doubt you'd find anyone with the cash on hand to purchase them.

The blacksmiths will be out there mining themselves and won't have cash to purchase. I would think you'd need a group of people or a guild focused on getting a gm smith as a higher priority than getting a house, and willing to funnel cash to miners to buy bulk ingots. I don't think that will be the case the first few days.

[Thayn]

.. would think you'd need a group of people or a guild focused on getting a gm smith as a higher priority than getting a house, and willing to funnel cash to miners to buy bulk ingots. I don't think that will be the case the first few days.

Unless you start planning now... *Raises an eyebrow*

[Severus]

If you set up the choice of get a house on day 2, or wait to get a house later so that everyone can pool resources into one character and have a GM smith asap, the house wins in most cases.

Maybe I'm wrong and there will be groups of 10 people all pooling their hard earned cash together to buy ingots for a smith buddy, that would be pretty cool to see.

[Jay]

I doubt it somehow :(

[Jack Straw]

I don't see the problem.. It is impossible to GM smithy in 2 days with this shards skill gain system. I don't see why getting a house in 2 days would stop you from buying ingots for the first few months of the shard :confused: In fact, it seems that once you get your house in two days you'll look to start buying other commodities (wood, ingots, leather, cloth, etc).

"Starting rates" doesn't mean its the price set for only the first few days. Obviously mining won't pay off instantly--as farming monsters will. That doesn't mean that ingots should be cheap, nor does it mean that no one will be out there mining with the intent to sell.

I wouldn't doubt that ingots start selling on the forums within the first month.

[Woodlife]

I'd buy a house while trying to make GM smith. With the skill cap, there's a limit to how fast someone can make a GM smith anyhow.

[Jack Straw]

Yea, in terms of housing as long as I can place a large brick or a large house with a patio I'll be happy :D

[Woodlife]

Yea, in terms of housing as long as I can place a large brick or a large house with a patio I'll be happy :D

Remember back in the day when you could place a small house on top of a tower?

[Jack Straw]

I also remember when you could make a court yard out of houses that you had to recall into :D

[Nightfyre]

omg omg we need a UO stock market... sales in Ingots went down .25 a share while nightshade went up 1.10 a share.

[Jack Straw]

omg omg we need a UO stock market... sales in Ingots went down .25 a share while nightshade went up 1.10 a share.

Can we do podcasts?

[Nightfyre]

of course! Emergency broadcasts, farmers market all that stuff :D

[Jack Straw]

They need to be really intense. Intense to the point of being nearly unintelligible the broadcaster is getting so excited.

I'm going to make bows with only sustainably harvested local trees.

[Woodlife]

omg omg we need a UO stock market... sales in Ingots went down .25 a share while nightshade went up 1.10 a share.

lol I'll give you a .05% discount on my GM armor for your humor.

[Nightfyre]

Thanks :D

[Woodlife]

Thanks :D

Sorry, that was a typo. I ment a 0.005% Discount lol

[Euphoria]

I must be one of those few people that enjoys mining. Especially with the rules it seems to limit skill gain etc. there won't be 7x GMs with towers on the first day because orc lords drop 15k a kill or other stupid settings servers have. My favorite char on OSI was my smithy and probably will be again on here. I don't think you'll see ingots for sale for anything less than 10g at the start due to people wanting them for themselves for skill gain. Be interesting to see though. Hopefully they crack down on any scripters / boat miners since that stuff ruins shards quick.

[Bongzilla]

On Divinity I made a killing selling ingots at 10 gp per because it was considered a deal. Maybe this was because it was before the population boom, but all I know is that people thought my pricing to be fair and even generous in some cases.

Don't underestimate the demand for these resources at the birth of shards, everyone wants to be the first GM smith and the profit you would make off of that venture far outweighs the amount you'd spend on the ingots even at 10 gp per.

It really all depends on how the prices get started off. If people instantly start selling their ingots at 6-7.5 gp per then everyone will only expect that price and anything else would be laughed at. Since a shard is so new though it would be easy to as 10-12 gp per ingot and get plenty of buyers as long as no one is undercutting your prices consistently.

The demand for ingots at the start of a shard is incredibly high--higher than it will ever be again. No one has their own large mass of ingots and there are many people wanting to train smithy/tinkering. I'd consider myself a fool to sell them for any less than 10 gp per until about a month or so in.
Well I guess I know the first places I'm going to pk at. :)

[Shmufle]

My first big character saw the t2a days and was a miner/mage. 10-12gp per was pretty damn standard... there were times when they were up to 15g but sometimes the market would slump down to 8g

[notext]

If you farm for a house immediately (mobs, pking, whatever) you can place that house by an area heavy in ores and farm far more ingots etc?

If you are a guild and all farm in a huge gang you will all gain skills at 200% rate and have a large pool of cash to buy a house then a large area to control and farm tons of ingots.

Any disagreements?

** obviously you could all just run round in a bandit gang farming miners doing this exact same thing too :)

[Woodlife]

If you farm for a house immediately (mobs, pking, whatever) you can place that house by an area heavy in ores and farm far more ingots etc?

If you are a guild and all farm in a huge gang you will all gain skills at 200% rate and have a large pool of cash to buy a house then a large area to control and farm tons of ingots.

Any disagreements?

** obviously you could all just run round in a bandit gang farming miners doing this exact same thing too :)

But of course :) I'd suggest being a pioneer and getting a good spot fast. They will go in a few days. My guess the first house placed will be at the Britain GY, then along the Britain roads, then the Moongates, and like cancer it will spread.

Also don't forget the dungeons. Those spots will be worthy due to the enterences and exits being heavy populated. Might make a good vendor spot.

[Violent Dave]

Here's some quick UO economics for you:

Basically the player market pricing is dictated by supply, demand, and consumption. Let's talk about ingots for example. When the server doors first open you'll have an extremely high demand and practically zero supply until people start hitting the rocks. While this sounds like an ideal sellers market you have to take into account: nobody has any money and the rate of consumption for finished product is at an all time low (people are hording and stockpiling).

In essence its like selling real estate in today's U.S. economy. There's a high demand and a decent enough supply, but no one has any money to make any actual purchases. Right out of the gate if you think you're going to get rich in raw materials you're mistaken.

The ONE thing people are going to have an abundance of and willingness to spend in the very beginning is TIME. The only commodity they can actually afford in the beginning so people will be putting this towards harvesting the product you're attempting to sell. Plus, if your plan is to rush something like lumberjacking for wood, mining for ingots, blacksmithing, fletching, or one of those "first tier" crafting skills your competition is going to be through the roof.

Its only until the economy matures a bit before raw materials will become a better source of income when everyone has their PvP characters done and want to spend time on them, the rate of consumption of these materials is much higher, everyone has a bit of money stockpiled, and the desire to rush GM another crafting skill that compliments the one they gunned towards in the very beginning.

Take this all with a grain of salt, this is just my humble prediction based on my experience.

[Jack Straw]

I just see with RoT being the way it is and people having a higher success rate at making their characters while farming (skill scrolls) farming will be a much more useful way to spend your time than mining(everyone wants to 7x and make money to boot). This is why I think that when ingots start to sell they will sell for a larger sum than expected (also depending on the state of the economy with King's taxes etc things will sell at different rates).

[Jabu]

Yeah, what Dave said. If you expect to get 10gp for raw materials when the server opens you'll be a very poor man.

[Jack Straw]

Depends on the time constraints you're talking about. On month one they won't be selling all too well probably, but by month 2 I bet you'll find some good money in ingots again. Really after buying a house, what other investments are there besides regs and then raw materials for crafting?
Rares? The rare market takes a long time to get going.
Magic weapons? That market will take much longer than ingots/crafting materials.
Wares of crafters? Needs the crafters.

[Dess]

nothing exists byt the immediate moment....... the past was but an immediate moment and the future is an illusion. Both concepts are due to consciousness and memory. The past is an immediate moment held inside our minds, the future is a concept created by our minds. Nothing exists but now.

Wow, thats deep.