Bounty Gate - A Direct 1v1 Challenge vs Soulblighter where Trolls randomly jump in

[Pud.S]

Dude, remember when you cried years ago about how Reds were acting like gangsters and ruining IPYUO?

Well wtf do you think I'm thinking about your precious foosball game.

Persons are being injured intently, directly targeted, and you defend this practice.

Yet in game I killed all the sheep and that wasn't fair.

This **** is so backwards I don't even get it, this is why I challenge you to a duel.

Terms: We agree to disagree up front, but also agree to illustrate and elaborate upon evidence of what has allowed us to make our personal decisions on how we feel about what you'd concede is an admitted "pay for pain" scandal, or what I call, straight up FB gangster mentality, applying 4v1 Player Killing/Injuring premeditation to jeopardize an individual's real family, life, and limb.



I'll start. How is Gregg Williams not the leader of IRL **** Blues?

[Pud.S]

Let us consider the actual leader of **** Blues, who applied pressure to his subordinates to kill the body of the enemy, who ran a very similar in-game racket, who used in-game tactics of extortion to socially engineer the universe by applying pressure on blues to pay (a small fee) 5k per week, in order to join the Protection Program. Any Protected blue could even phone in a hit if they wanted full grinding rights to a territory.

I was told about this irl bounty program two weeks ago, and for two weeks I've been unhappy that a person, and you claim Everyone, conspires to intent to injure in a game that crosses state lines and has no licenses to Intent to Injure one's opponent. It is clearly against the rules and laws upon which we live, and conspiring to do so, covering up one's intent to do so, and actively participating and / or standing by idle without mentioning a word is a failure of In Real Life humanity to wake the **** up.

[Pud.S]

Bring Player Killing back to games, and for goodness sake, please just release Hell and Dread Lords so I can contend anyone has the chance to actively extort, coerce, conspire, ....have the PVP of their lives without irl intent to injure...

[Pud.S]

Simply put, I'm arguing 'I believe Sports should provide an athlete the luxury of competing tomorrow, save acts of God & accidents"

My belief about what you contend: is "they are actual Gladiators", even though Gladiators were slaves, and that would make you a condescending prick if you were to go down that road, and additionally these individuals are absolutely not Roman Slaves fighting for their freedom because many of them earn incomes greater than that of our own President.

All your arguments have too many holes, concede now or risk further embarrassment advocating irl gangsterism

[Pud.S]

Also Off Topic, you guys following up on http://inporylem.com/forum/showthread.php?946-Spartacus-Gods-of-the-Arena ?

This show rocks the house, even with a new Spartacus!

[Pud.S]

Persons are being injured intently, directly targeted, and you defend this practice.

Yet in game I killed all the sheep and that wasn't fair.

Wait, I think I've figured it out, so long as there's a healthy stream of fresh blood flowing into the pool who cannot wait to be chosen, "Conspiracy with Intent to Annihilate" an individual or group is OK.

[Nothing personal]

Wut

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

I was trying to figure the same thing out. My running guess is that the NFL/Saints bounty system(s) is karmically equivalent to killing all the sheep in the newbie area. Pay for 'grief' is fundamentally at odds with good will towards others and community, so whomever (soulblighter?) Pud.S is debating against is a hypocrite because he/she doesn't realize how ****ed up a bounty system in professional sports is.

I am not exactly sure how this relates to UO dynamics, probably some drama episode I wasn't there for.

[Soulblighter]

Alright, so basically out of the blue I get this email from Puds concluding with:


Crimes backed by evidence I believe were perpetrated by coach Gregg Williams:

1. Conspiracy to commit a violent act (Across state lines, Multiple counts)
2. Conspiracy to commit a violent act (Multiple counts)
3. Crimes against Humanity (Multiple counts) Used position of Authority to require players to use methods of illegitimate, Cruel and Unusual Punishment towards opposing players during gameplay. "Kill Frank Gore's Head"
"That little 22 with the concussion... He has to decide" (Leaves it ambiguous directly implying if #22 wants to step back into the coliseum and risk having his head targeted and re-injured, it's #22's choice)
"he becomes human when you ****in' take out that outside ACL"
4. Extortion (Multiple counts) 'To be one of us you must commit violent crimes and never apologize for them or else be terminated'
5. Racketeering (Multiple counts)

I assume because I live in New Orleans and am, yes, a Saints fan. I don't defend or condone the bounty thing as it's unsportsmanlike in the extreme, but calling it a crime against humanity is absurd.

Fact: Any NFL coach can tell his defense to beat the **** out the opposing team, knock the quarterback on his ass, hit Frank Gore in the face or the knees (I'd recommend the latter from a simply physic perspective). Nobody gives a ****. Nobody gave a **** when Pierre Thomas was knocked out cold, did they? No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBpgHPjI0zg

You mean to tell me their coach didn't tell them to hit PT in the ****ing head? You think he was disappointed to see that? Blow it out your ass. I hate the 9ers but they're not a bunch of pussies, nor should they be.

Nobody gives a **** when a boxer punches his opponent in the face, because that's what boxers do - similarly, there is no rule against hard hitting in the NFL in and of itself. Certain hits are against the rules regardless of whether the player was paid 1 cent or 0 cents for them, and that's all I'm really concerned with. I'm talking about simple things here, who is hit and when.

If a player makes a legal hit and is paid $1000, I'm fine with that being punished, but it is not a crime against humanity.
If a player makes an illegal hit and fined $25,000, it's a typical NFL game. At this point Puds claimed ignorance so I guess he'll just have to take my word for it. (All of this conversation took place on my Facebook wall so I'm not sure why he's referencing it here - see a shrink , Puds)
If a player makes an illegal hit and is fined $25,000 and is paid $1,000 by Greg Williams to defray it, yes, that's definitely against the spirit of fair play, the player agreement, mom and apple pie, etc.

But it is not a crime against humanity.

Plenty of players have had their careers ended, not by acts of god or accidents, but by good ol' clean football.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH8SZOqc6Pk

Athletes are granted a wide berth under the law and it's not because of some mythical "license to Intent to Injure one's opponent". To the extent that boxers need licenses, they are issued by state gaming control boards and are intended to tamp down the mob influence somewhat - they have nothing to do with ensuring that life and limb are only harmed judiciously. Hockey has a whole set of rules governing fighting even though it's penalized, and over the years there have been players who are basically sent into the game just to fight a guy on the other team - am I wrong about this, Puds? - even though they don't carry a 00 Agent License to Intent to Injure.

So, no, a bountied football hit (be it clean or dirty) is not a crime, encouraging it is not a "conspiracy" "across state lines" (what is this, a Ron Paul thread?) and paying someone to do it is not extortion (maybe more like... reverse extortion? if you pay a hooker for sex, is that extortion? seems to be the same concept but I'm lost as to who's extorting what and from whom). It was a pitiful last gasp of an increasingly unpopular coach with an aging unit at best, and a deeply unsportsmanlike career-ending disappointment at worst.

I do not expect or endorse criminal charges against any Saints coaches or players. Nor do I expect any civil actions - players sign away those rights before they lace up their cleats for the first time.

So I really don't know what I'm expected to say about this, except... no?

[Pud.S]

Alright, so basically out of the blue I get this email from Puds concluding with:

I assume because I live in New Orleans and am, yes, a Saints fan. I don't defend or condone the bounty thing as it's unsportsmanlike in the extreme, but calling it a crime against humanity is absurd.

I sent this email to many.

Defensive Coordinators, Not Sports Physician Exports mentioning an ACL in a locker room is absurd.




Fact: Any NFL coach can tell his defense to beat the **** out the opposing team, knock the quarterback on his ass, hit Frank Gore in the face or the knees (I'd recommend the latter from a simply physic perspective). Nobody gives a ****. Nobody gave a **** when Pierre Thomas was knocked out cold, did they? No.

Correct, Correct, Grey as **** area, Correct. Yes he can tell his defense to hit Frank Gore in the face, but why would he? Because he's a complete scumbag? It's against the rules of the game and coincidentally also the integrity of the game (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827660bc/article/fletcher-says-intent-to-injure-doesnt-fit-nfl-brotherhood) to do so.

I'm told people shy away from drafting Frank Gore in Fantasy because he's injury prone. Because of concussions. Why the **** is anyone going to hit him in the face intentionally? Why would anyone ask another person to hit him in the face intentionally? Why would anyone pay money for that crime to be committed. Yes it is a crime to harm another individual with intent (A player's lawyer never would have allowed him to agree to a contract where he agreed to allow 5 large men conspire to take out his ACL.

Ok maybe if one's lawyer works at the NFLPA.

Perhaps the language he agreed to was more like Get the **** beat out of me, have me carted off by huge blows, huge hits, it's a violent game. My mom cries when I get injured by an act of God or accident.

But when a mother****er comes into my realm and starts trying to **** with player's lives by targeting specific player's pressure points like some sort of mad scientist as I once did, but this time it's for realz, it turns me into a furious Troll.

Your deflections about other sports: Educate me more about boxing and I'll give you more about hockey.

Really just google: hockey player criminal lawsuits (https://www.google.com/search?q=hockey+player+criminal+lawsuits&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=mzJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=hockey+player+criminal+lawsuits&oq=hockey+player+criminal+lawsuits&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.12...0.0.0.1487263.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0. ..0.0.cky1Z69TOhs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ab407b5897f76374&biw=1024&bih=618) and you'll get all kinds of stuff that crossed the line in the game of hockey.

The Violence in ice hockey wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in_ice_hockey) states
On the ice, referees may impose penalties for prohibited activities. Off the ice, the National Hockey League (NHL) sometimes fines, suspends, or expels players. The criminal justice system has also been known to investigate, charge, and convict players.

Why is football's continuing use of unwarranted, conspired attacks across state lines against another human's vital organs/ligaments protected?

If there's evidence of an individual's conspiring to gank (http://www.unsportsmanlike.ca/leaked-gregg-williams-tells-saints-kill-frank-gores-head-audio/) another individual's ACL, for gold, again, how can you not see that this is indeed a high crime against humanity once this individual continues to conspire, cover up (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/03/26/league.meetings.snaps/index.html)... etc.

Mind you, we are still only talking about this man's evident and admitted intent to injure other humans with his man scientist brain. Which is frowned upon by me, and if I don't make an example by putting in my own IRL Red patch, I will believe just as Az believed... this activity will continue until it ruins the entire game.

I concede to you, Goodell has all the goods and will likely end up destroying it in order to protect the game. But others like my boy Anthony Hargrove (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/07/the-anthon-hargrove-declaration/) and those like he who continue to do the Right thing will aid me on my quest to eliminating real life gangsterism in Football.

As far as how much this is just like UO was years ago, just look at how the players react to harsh Red penalties (http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/05/07/jonathan-vilma-and-i-go-back-and-forth-on-twitter/). This is UO IRL.

[Pud.S]

Touche about the shrink! :P

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-57410430-10391697/dad-of-targeted-49er-coachs-order-borders-on-criminal-act/

When I meet this dude's dad irl, shall I relay to him I've a good friend who thinks he should blow it out his ass too?

[Pud.S]

Ok I just found this group of humanist advocates called CageWilly.org and they pay up to $4500, per each thug brought into court to defend himself illustrating how he was being extorted into co-conspiring criminal intent to injure vital organ/ligament. Or he could also come out and admit to being a thug who wants to ruin the lives of other players for money.

PS, This thread frowns upon editing of posts. Just commit to your post and post again if you must.

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

Probably true things...then: This is UO IRL.

Your posts are always so blurred between metaphor and the literal that they're incredibly hard to read and get at what you really 'mean'. Your pseudo-aphoristic style is really interesting but creates a lot of ambiguity, certainly a unique method of forum warring Pud.S.

So really though, what is the point? I don't think being adamantly anti-bounty system is a particularly adventurous position. There's clearly a larger point behind all this.

[Pud.S]

He Becomes Human When You ****in' Take Out His Outside ACL (http://www.hark.com/clips/fdvgfhpxcm-he-becomes-human-when-we-****ing-take-out-that-outside-acl)

Defend this man's brainwaves more, or point fingers at everyone and say everyone is doing this. I don't care. I simply ask of you to please list out who else did this and/or actively crosses the line the way this man did. Yes I am ignorant to your foosball.

Whoever is doing this and I call guards upon, gets wacked. Dems the rules.

Why no one decided to call guards until now is way ****ing beyond me.

[Pud.S]

Your pseudo-aphoristic style is really interesting but creates a lot of ambiguity, certainly a unique method of forum warring Pud.S.

Thank you sir, you should head on over to screenshotbook.com where we troll-lol-lol all day all long.

Our first year at school Soulblighter, after I started **** Blues and he started **** Reds, convinced me human life could exist simply as a living brain in a bath, allowing for the matrix or whatever the possibilities may be...

Couple that with some Ray Kurzweil's Singularity is Near, and you get a guy confused about how in real life intent to injure is a good thing. When all we have to do is wait a couple more years and the nanobots will either save or eliminate us by mending our wounds, extending our lives, or just plain going Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

My message is clear. Intend to harm the player in the vicious game, but if it involves actual injury (and people are conspiring to commit violent crimes) we need to think of something else to play. How about Real Steal bots from the NFL splash screens get ordered from Japan...

Conspiring to intent to injure in a game with grown men is a problem. It is not good old football. Or perhaps Soulblighter is right and it truly is that way, has been that way...but it won't be that way for much longer once they start goin' to the slammer like MC. Hammer.

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

It's America. If it isn't violent, then we generally don't like it. You can that say about every predominantly American sport and our attitudes even pervades discussions of soccer/real football (too much acting and not enough action, i.e. no one beating someone to death) and basketball (too much flopping, too many foul calls), supposedly nonviolent sports.

UFC. Professional Wrestling (not really a sport, I suppose). Even poor Brian Stow in America's-completely-demure-pastime: baseball.

Graphic deplorable violence is ok as long as they don't say any naughty words.

I guess the rest of the world has problems with soccer hooligans and occasional riots, but I think the actions of fans is probably distinct from the essence of playing the game as a player. American football is clearly our most popular sport by a large margin (if we discount NASCAR as a sport for the sake of argument) and clearly the most violent. We've always known this, but no one wants to admit because it makes all of us look bad. **** they used to have "Hits of the Week" segments on ESPN with the most demoralizingly brutal hits ever conceived. Most players 45+ have debilitating health and mental issues. Junior Seau just killed himself.

I don't think it's really maliciously intentional, more like ignorantly blissful. Oh well, just one more area America seems to lag behind comparably developed countries in terms of being "civilized."

[Pud.S]

I haven't even begun on the language written in the Patriot Act of 2001 towards conspiring to do harm against another person in this country. Your former man walked the finest line any real life man has walked, but I tell you based on the goods that are on him, he should simply turn him self in and beg for some sort of clemency.

If he does that, I will end my quest.

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

Barack is clearly an improvement. Not convinced exactly how much of one.

America was a really interesting place 2000-08. We've basically just wallowed in our own **** since the end of the Bush Administration. Irony at its finest.

[Pud.S]

I don't think it's really maliciously intentional, more like ignorantly blissful. Oh well, just one more area America seems to lag behind comparably developed countries in terms of being "civilized."

Although I do hate onions, I got no beef with you... but How the **** is malicious intent and ignorant bliss anything but the exact same thing when it's being extorted upon others from a position of seniority?

I will recommend everyone who should like to watch God Bless America (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4CZrnEFxU)

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

I don't disagree with you. I am trying to be descriptive. It gets me in trouble most the time because people are used to simply hearing someone's opinion in their argumentative communication instead of critical thought.

Americans cling to the thin moral illusion that allowing someone to suffer is not the same thing as causing someone to suffer. It's basically what we do.

[Pud.S]

I don't disagree with you. I am trying to be descriptive. It gets me in trouble most the time because people are used to simply hearing someone's opinion in their argumentative communication instead of critical thought.

I will accept any critical thought. But let's please try not to confuse anyone, including myself, with semantics. Now that you've joined the conversation, I'm baffled upon how you cannot just come out and agree with me that the tape clearly tells the listener this man knew exactly what he was doing.

It feels good to say it, just try saying I agree with you Pud



Americans cling to the thin moral illusion that allowing someone to suffer is not the same thing as causing someone to suffer. It's basically what we do.

Not myself, good sir. And when there's a mountain of evidence to prove in the court of law malicious intent...

Vendor buy bank guards

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

I thought it was obvious that I agree with you. But if you desire a simple declaration, then I agree with you Pud.

It's pretty clear that at the very least Williams is done in the NFL for life. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a Div 2-3 job soonish though. Maybe the fallout will be bigger than I expect and Williams goes to jail or something like that - massive public opinion change is the only way those sorts of crucifixion work out. Civil suits rely on that sort of jury opinion and criminal charges will probably get lost in the mire of the system privilege affords people like Williams.

The justice system is very rarely anyone's saviour. It definitely happens once in a while, but generally privilege defines the results.

*edit* lol too high to spell crucifixion, figured it out.

[Pud.S]

I was trying to figure the same thing out. My running guess is that the NFL/Saints bounty system(s) is karmically equivalent to killing all the sheep in the newbie area. Pay for 'grief' is fundamentally at odds with good will towards others and community, so whomever (soulblighter?) Pud.S is debating against is a hypocrite because he/she doesn't realize how ****ed up a bounty system in professional sports is.

I am not exactly sure how this relates to UO dynamics, probably some drama episode I wasn't there for.

You're pretty good. The sheep were all blues of IPY1, and the metaphor comes from Thinking Like a Mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_like_a_mountain)

The wolves ate too many sheep IPY1 and additionally IPY2's paladin patch which introduced the Hunters with Guns aspect (deciders of how many wolves need to be killed so the sheep can exist) of the metaphor. Ironically the story told in Thinking Like a Mountain happened to IPY.

[Pud.S]

Although I stand by the many counts of extortion, I should add

6. Quid Pro Quo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quid_pro_quo) Multiple Counts - (Exact same scenario as Sexual Harassment, 'Do this for me... Get the Promotion')

[Hearshot Atom Disaster]

When you live in a capitalist society, you shouldn't be shocked when morals go out the window for money. This exists in all aspects of american society, but is rarely recognized for what it really is.

<2 cents>

[Nothing personal]

When you live in a capitalist society, you shouldn't be shocked when morals go out the window for money. This exists in all aspects of american society, but is rarely recognized for what it really is.

<2 cents>

Here we go...

[Hearshot Atom Disaster]

Here we go...

Lol, what? I thought this was where the thread was heading. It's true, though.

[Pud.S]

My response depends on if you're an American or not. If not, by all means Troll lol lol all day

[Onion Ring Sasquatch]

I think being shocked and being outraged all different things.

I was not shocked when the bounty system came to light. Outraged yes, but I was already on the football is becoming way too violent bandwagon.

And yes, capitalism at it's core creates commodities out of nothing and treats nothing as sacred. It's not just America obviously, we just put our face on it.

[Pud.S]

Standup feat one of the best, Patrice O'neal - Football (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnHV5s7YqgA)