RP Guild - Virtue: Are you interested?

[Thayn]

Hey all! Just figured I'd throw this out to get a feel for how many people would be interested in such a guild. Trying to determine whether or not I'm wasting my time even thinking about it, so here goes.

Guild Name: Virtue
Type: Heavy RP, Themed guild
Government: Republic/Militaristic
Home City: Trinsic

About:

Virtue will be a guild focused on, surprise, the virtues. It will be a heavy RP guild, humans only for the foreseeable future.

This is not a guild for people who seek rapid advancement, or seek domination in some aspect of the game (PvP, PvE, or otherwise). It's a RP guild, first and foremost, with less focus on skills, wealth, and abilities, and more emphasis on character, immersion, and strict code of conduct.

You will be voluntarily handicapping yourself to a certain degree for the sake of RP and immersion, so if always winning or being the best on the whole shard, you're materialistic, or domination appeals to you, this is likely not the guild for you.

We will PvE, PvP, and do everything in between. But our intent is not to win, but to create the most immersive RP guild on the server.


Primary elements:

- Magic use will be heavily restricted if not outright banned.
- Ranks based on a military-like hierarchy, heavy Roman influence.
- An out-of-game achievement system used to determine ranks. Achievements will be based on in-game actions, meta-game contributions (forums, stories, etc), and overall involvement.
- Equipment will be restricted based on rank, and out-of-game achievement system.
- Heavy involvement in the Kings system, specifically for the city of Trinsic.
- Order Alignment when possible.

I also want to point out that I would not be the guild leader. I would form the guild and tend to it's various systems, such as the out-of-game achievement system, website, etc..

I'm not charismatic enough, knowledgeable of all systems (Not ignorant, just not advanced) , nor do I have a lot of free time to consecutively play.. Believe it or not, I have more time to work on the meta-guild than actually playing. I would play the role of Steward to the guild, handling administrative affairs, while leaders and ranks are chosen and filled out.

If any of you have heard of the Yew Militia on UO: Second Age, it's almost a copy of that system that Marcus (I forget his last name there.. Stonewall?) had envisioned. I loved the system and want to take it to the next level.

So if you'd like to hear more about what I have in mind, or are already interested, please reply below

Thanks, and safe travels!

[Dodger]

I would definitely be interested but only see 2 possible flaws. You will ultimately have no say in Order/Chaos unless a member is King of Trinsic. Second problem is possible limit on growth/magic/equipment will make it quite hard to be a part of said Order/Chaos conflict. We will probably end up being slaughtered by the true Order/Chaos power gamers. If you took out the attempt to be part of the non-roleplaying community and focused strictly on the guild itself with no relation to outside players I think it would work perfectly. (Such has having our own Trinsic militia and community with goals completely unrelated to that of those outside of our guild whom reside in the actual Trinsic force).

Either way I'm interested and am almost certainly willing to participate.

[Thayn]

Excellent to hear!

I do understand your suggestions - It will be a veritable slaughter to those who are unrestrained in their skills, but it's the restraints that I think will help give the guild a better definition of self. An identity, if you will.

I just like the city of Trinsic, and for RP purposes, would like to see that as our "home". Would like to buy as much property around it as possible. Certainly, with kings, we should be able to have some pull on who gets elected if we get big enough, and will hopefully continue to get those in who will make it an Order city. Order is just a preference, and for RP reasons. What the city actually becomes isn't going to be that consequential.

As for involving ourselves in other activities, I am simply making it clear that characters in the guild will not be forbidden to partake in any system so long as it fits their perception of their character, and they understand the consequences of joining these systems given any handicap we may or may not impose.

[Dewderonomy]

I've always played with handicaps in the past - restricting arties/marties post-AoS, mounts pre-AoS (we used bolas), saying no to "2-1-drops"/magery, etc. - and encouraged teamwork and utilizing the skills of the players available to the best strategic advantage. When the players were serious about PvP, we never lost; when I fielded RPers who didn't care one way or another, we still pulled out 50/50. It's about the dedication of the players, and with UO PvP as obnoxiously boring and routine as it has been over the last several years (particularly on PRSes), thinking outside the "mana dump" box is an advantage in and of itself.

It's just up the players themselves to be devoted to it and not relying on a caller in Vent.

I think if enough players wanted to, Trinsic could be a power player in the O/C scene, particularly if its leaders think strategically when it comes to utilizing the town's own defenses to hold the brazier points. The only problem I see is the shard's inherent fanboism towards magery - forcing a group to have a mage on hand for the sole purpose of casting Flamestrike on the brazier instead of using a more "fair play" system involving a guildstone-like structure in its place that doesn't require a thief to steal a sigil or a wizard to set a bowl on fire in order to take a town.

Of course I could have read the 10-in-10 wrong.

Either way, good luck with the guild. There may be privateers interested in Trinsic's port if the paladins there have interests in establishing a letter of marque, or simply wish to dish out death onto one another in its warehouse district.

[Diz]

Dewd, one of the cool things about O/C that upsets you is that there are different roles that allow for different templates to shine in the various roles of O/C. The way it's set up, no single player can perform every single act within O/C and that helps create a sense of co-dependence for O/C.

I totally get what you're saying about the Flamestrike though for example... meh, would be really annoying if you're on a dexer without magery and can't light a brazier, etc...

Also without understanding particular brazier placement it would be difficult to make sweeping assumptions about Trinsic, but you're right - the city has always had the ramparts and players have always enjoyed utilizing those within PvP.

Also, there is no way a group without Vent can beat a group in Vent in any video game if both groups are equal and the group in Vent is actually using it for proper organization/structure. It's just a fact. It's why VOIP is in every PC FPS and every console sports title. Voice comm is everything in a dynamic group combat game. But I respect the RPing thing, I really do, and I honestly admire people who do not use Vent or other various 3rd party apps for advantage. I felt the same way when WoW released, I had just used Razor (and of course Vent) on IPY 1.0, but I felt very uncomfortable with the open-ended mod support for WoW and how it gave people advantages and shortcuts in gameplay and in the UI. But it's 2010, people do what they gotta do, and it's sort of at the point where you adapt and utilize 3rd party stuff or you don't and get left behind. For example, you can use Vent and just keep the discussion either IN CHARACTER or completely OUT OF CHARACTER. I think that's a good thing for an RP group who uses Vent, Vent can be for straight OOC organization/communication so they don't play at a disadvantage during fights or events, and whenever they are in game or things aren't life-or-death, they can go back to IC or keep the RP in-game only and Vent for calling, etc. Nothing wrong with that! :)

[Dewderonomy]

I was referring mostly to magery being the "one-and-only, now and forever, amen" skill rather than the use of Vent. I have no problem with Vent; granted, I didn't start using it 'til long after I realized every other guild was (it was about 2007), and even then, still participated in pretty amazing victories without it (no insult intended towards blowing off your "facts" about Vent-v-No Vent). Again, it was because of my group's sense of teamwork. If you know how to work together, how each other reacts, and instill initiative in your group, little need be said - and when you don't even have to waste time talking, how can Vent have an advantage over such synchronous work ethics? Like any advantage, if it is assumed as a routine aspect of your tactical abilities, it turns into a crutch, and overall skill deteriorates as a result.

I just feel the shard makes leaps and bounds in the right direction, but when I see melee special moves left out (in any sort of representation, be it random Renaissance-style fighting or more balanced, tactical uses as seen on other shards) or such a heavy reliance on Magery in general (or rather, an assumed stance that everyone serious in PvP should have it), I just groan. One step forward, two steps back.

Also, can you show me where more info on O/C is concerning town takeover? You remarked about how "different templates" have a place, that "no one" can accomplish "every single act within O/C", but so far I'm only seeing "farming for pixie dust" (tamer mages) and "lighting the Olympic Bowl" (mages, again, potentially tamer mages at that) as the town reclamation processes, with Magery being key in both (which I don't feel is very "different" at all).

[Diz]

Dexxers are pretty much the single most powerful characters in IPY 1.0, and assuming PvP is still pretty much the same, 2.0 as well.

They have the highest sustainable DPS, combined with the highest damage mitigation in the game, and if they have magery, they have the most sustained HoT in the game.

A dexxer chugging potions with chaingear and a Vanq is going to *DESTROY* any tank mage. Every time. It's not even funny.

And yes sure, there can be upsets where a group without Vent can beat a group with Vent, but the reality is that if you have two equally skilled groups of players and one uses Vent and the other doesn't, one is at a significant advantage, they should win the vast majority of the time (9 out of 10). There is just absolutely no way that a group can communicate as effeciently and as organized without Vent with just the tools in the game client, and things like reaction and adaptation are much easier to coordinate as well on-the-fly. Sure you could type out your calls in game, but again, that's not as efficient and not as global (people off screen, mistypes while fighting, etc).

More on the O/C takeover can be read about here - http://azaroth.org/2010/11/07/10-in-10-kings-and-oc/

I'm just going off of assumptions based on lines that Az wrote, such as -


Depending on the strength of your walls, varying numbers of bombs must explode simultaneously to take it down – and friendly militia players can destroy them (using spells, or other means).

See that part about other means? Seems like a hint to me! Har har...

[Dewderonomy]

"Using spells or other means". A hint of things would be nice if the base game mechanics didn't suggest that "other means" had little to do with warrior skills and more in line with (maybe) crafter's skills or O/C-specific items (battering rams or powder kegs, for example).

But as to your insight into IPY's past PvP mechanics, dexxers wearing chaingear and a vanquishing weapon will hit 100% of the time (or at least more than 50/50)? Chainmail protects from magic spells (if not, why wear it with no one using melee weapons)? Potions are only allowed by players with X amount of Tactics (i.e., mages can't chug potions either)? And do vanqs spawn on the ground or are purchasable for small amounts in an NPC store? Does this mean, assuming that vanquishing (that is, highly rare and powerful weapons) is the standard for success, that GM weapons are pointless and blacksmiths shouldn't bother selling them?

Damage potential and damage practicality are two totally separate issues. I don't know the details of melee combat on IPY (mainly 'cause I can't find any information on it), so I'm assuming ***********-style PvP sans horses. And a dedicated warrior is supposed to slaughter a tank mage in hand-to-hand combat; the tank has the advantage of magery, able to use both melee and magic to deal with a larger variety of scenarios more accessibly, at the cost of neither specializing as a mage nor as a warrior (in turn, a mage should also be able to outshoot a tank with spells). Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none sort of deal; suffering no disadvantages based on situation, but holding no significant advantage in any, either.

But if I'm to believe what you say about IPY1.0, does that mean warriors have easy access to high-end magic weapons, like katanas and krysses and quarter staves? That is, the ease of access to high damage weapons is the balance for lacking any sort of tactical application of a warrior's skills (concussion, paralyzing and crushing blows)? I'm not seeing much information on it (hence my inquiries), and all the screenshots I see are a bunch of mages running around, "loading up", which doesn't suggest much in the way of warriors "destroying" mages/tanks like you pointed out (or else there would be more warriors in the screenshots, naturally).

[Diz]

No, dexxers wearing chaingear and a Vanq has nothing to do with hit rates. If it's GM weapon skill vs GM weapon skill (or Wrestling) it's 50% chance to hit.

Of course PvP is dynamic and weapon damage is in bursts (see overwhelming preference for Hally) for killshots or quick (see overwhelming preference for Katana) for disrupting. You're not standing next to your enemy wacking on him standing still for several minutes... but... if you saw IPY 1.0 dexxers fully suited, you'd understand they were absolute WRECKING MACHINES that could not be topped by any single character. They were UNSTOPPABLE.

Vanquishing was just the 5th tier magic weapon, the highest base damage modifier you could get on a weapon. This was the ace card that made dexxers more than just "good". Not every dexxer rolled with Vanqs, but the best did, and they would also roll with Invuln chainmail, 80 potions, GM magery for teleporting and staying on people or the rare heal, etc...

Magery is a must for any combat character in UO. That includes Dexxers or various townies like battle thieves. The utility is untouched by any other skill set.

Easy access to high end weapons? No. The alpha gamers who happen to play dexxers will be almost always be using them, though.

[Dewderonomy]

And that's the point I was getting at. "Get Magery or gtfo." It's rather disappointing and upsetting to see "Dexxers" and "must have magery" in the same sentence. That's not Dexxing; that's Tanking, at best, or simply being a Mage.

As for the original topic, how will Virtue/Trinsic be involved in O/C if it's up to the individual? It seems like the guild won't be Order, and I thought O/C was by guild, not by individual? Has this been considered for the guild (or am I reading it wrong)?

[Diz]

Well magicians should be pretty resourceful. When you really think about it.

It's same thing as Magic Resist, anybody involved in PvP would be wise to raise it up!

I'd assume if you're in a guild, your guild would most likely all be citizens of a certain city and thus all O or all C, etc... but I can maybe see some situations where a group would want to split up and cover many bases... ;P

[Dodger]

When I think of a tank mage I think of an offensive mage with melee abilities. When I hear a dexxer with magery I think of a melee fighter with defensive/assistance magic. A dexxer with magery will more than likely be casting reactive armor, cure, heal, magic reflection, teleport etc. than casting FS and EB because he will have no med or eval. This is good because you only have to give up parry or a 2nd melee skill.

[Thayn]

And really, the magic issue is negotiable. Maybe confine it to certain ranks or divisions, since it will have military-esq hierarchy to it, with defined advancement paths with the out-of-game achievement system.

[Shmufle]

This is not a guild for people who seek rapid advancement, or seek domination in some aspect of the game (PvP, PvE, or otherwise).
That counts me out :o