Skill Gain

[Dess]

I like the idea behind slow skill gain and character development, and the skill scrolls sound great. But, I think we need to make sure that skill gain is really slow. I'm playing UO Revelations right now and they actually went with the "skill gain slow in towns and faster in dungeons" (wonder where they got that idea?) its just not quite slow enough and its not keeping people in dungeons. I'm playing with bloodclan now, and everyone is still macroing up their characters because it can be done in a week or so. and this is a roleplay guild. Everyone has it stuck in their heads that you HAVE to be 7x to enjoy the game or pvp at all. You really have to make it to so when someone gets to 90 skill and they know its going to take another month and a half to gm, they just go out and pvp. Its the only way its going to work.

[Budikah]

While I'd love to go out and play the game all the way from 50 to GM, I've got a life nowadays so I'll probably macro whenever I can, then play when my friends are around and whatnot. I honestly wouldn't mind if Macroing was substantially slower than active play. I'd prefer it, even though it'd probably take me longer under that system.

[redHusarz]

Personally, I would prefer a skill system such as the one in EVE online, except with an additional twist. Ideally, you would slowly gain 1 skill at a time in real time, even offline, but gain faster when you actually use the skills on mobs or in dungeons or something. This way people wouldn't need to macro afk but instead actually play the game the way it was intended.

I doubt many of you would actually like a system like that but it personally grew on me. You worry less about skills and more about playing, pvp, making money etc... I also heard Darkfall will be introducing something similar and I think it'll definitely attract more people (possibly me).

[Jack Straw]

Personally, I would prefer a skill system such as the one in EVE online, except with an additional twist. Ideally, you would slowly gain 1 skill at a time in real time, even offline, but gain faster when you actually use the skills on mobs or in dungeons or something. This way people wouldn't need to macro afk but instead actually play the game the way it was intended.

I doubt many of you would actually like a system like that but it personally grew on me. You worry less about skills and more about playing, pvp, making money etc... I also heard Darkfall will be introducing something similar and I think it'll definitely attract more people (possibly me).

Darkfall is the longest grind of your life sadly :(

I agree with Budikah.. Mildly slow skill gain would be preferable.. I just don't want people to be 7x within ~2 weeks of the shard opening..

[redHusarz]

Darkfall is the longest grind of your life sadly :(

I agree with Budikah.. Mildly slow skill gain would be preferable.. I just don't want people to be 7x within ~2 weeks of the shard opening..

Yeah I support that. I would also support more gold sinks too so not everyone has 5634235435432 gold in the bank after a few weeks/months.

[Romp]

Mildly slow skill gain equates only to macroing taking longer. It's delaying the inevitable for the sake of a point it's failing to accomplish. If you're going to only half stop it you might as well not make gains slow at all. Hell, why not just start everyone at 7xgm - if macroing is a mere annoyance and formality then what's the point of making gains semi-slow at all?

Everyone will still macro. The only way to stop macroing is if skills are so slow that macroing would mean you weren't playing the game at all for months, therefore encouraging people to actually play the game it was supposed to be played, exploring, dungeoning etc - rather then partnering up with their irl / ex shard chums and macroing to GM in a few weeks as opposed to a few days or less.

I'm all for the game being played properly. Where you look at your skill and think "Ok, I'm going to have to go to bone-wall for the best gains" or "I'm not quite at this point yet, there's a good place in Del I can get gains" etc. You know, actually getting amongst it and playing and skilling up naturally.

Wouldn't we all rather that? where there's a chance that you'll see other people in remote areas doing the same thing you're doing. Isn't that what gives life to the game?

[skimmo]

I still clearly remember by WoW days. I would grind away for hours with the motivation being the 'endgame'. That is, levelling was just a necessary shitty evil that you HAD to do, in order to raid/arena/BG. It reached a point where people would pay others to level for them. I think this detracts massively from the sense of community. In WoW, you could NEVER made contact with anyone outside your guild if you so wished. You never NEEDED to communicate with anyone. You could PvP solo or with one other person and NEVER leave town.

I think the equivalent situation in UO would be house macroing for 2 weeks, then logging on every so often to engage in 'endgame' content. Which is bad. Oh so bad.

TLDR; people are lazy and macro, force them into the world which promotes player interaction.

This will all (hopefully) be addressed in Az's 'fairplay' 10 in 10 post.

[Romp]

I think the equivalent situation in UO would be house macroing for 2 weeks, then logging on every so often to engage in 'endgame' content. Which is bad. Oh so bad.

TLDR; people are lazy and macro, force them into the world which promotes player interaction.

.

Exactly. I really do hope it is somehow enforced.

[abm]

No skill gains in houses.

[skimmo]

No skill gains in houses.

reprezent

[SoulStealer A.O]

Yeah, UO:revelation is hilarous. People macroing everywhere. Don't forget IPY 2.0 Has the RoT system in so skill gain will be slow either way. If you can't macro in houses, people will do it in town or outside the guardline. I think the overall skill gain rate should be slowed. It's preety much one week or so do 7x on uo rev if you spend all your money on your character. There is no way other then slowing skills and RoT around this, we are just to good at the game. After all it's been 13 years.

Money also should be harder to get or things should be more expensive like they were on siege. Aslong as slow skill gain is in for everyone aswell as RoT, folks who are more casual won't be left so far behind but like in any game, whoever plays the most will be the furthest ahead.

[redHusarz]

No skill gains in houses.

and towns :D

[Travis]

and towns :D

Wouldnt be UO without an annoying bard, playing at Brit bank though..

[Auth]

Slowing skill gains isn't necessarily good either though. Consider the casual player who only gets to play 2 hours a night: sure, at first he'll be able to compete and play the game the way it was meant to play in the beginning, but he will quickly be surpassed by those who play 24/7, or know the game inside and out to macro 24/7 practically. By the time he gets his 1x GM, he'll be COMPLETELY dominated by someone who has spent countless hours GMing 7x (mainly due to the slow skill increase), and will probably quit the game since his content his limited to what he can kill (and what will probably also be camped by those who like to prey on newbs).

Slowing skill gain isn't the answer. Any type of grind has always been the downfall. Sure it possibly allows for more player retention due to it being a goal that people subconsciously want to achieve, but if a setting in a game caters to people who play 24/7 to become infinitely better than a player who can only play casually, then it becomes a huge issue. Player retention goes down the drain. Skills/stats should never be the deciding factor in what maintains a player's longevity in the game...it should be the content.

I was lead to believe that this shard would be quite centered on PvP, so I don't understand why people are saying "they're only going to hop in for some 'endgame' and then leave." Well, endgame is PvP, and this shard is centered around it, so I don't see why you would want to just grind some skills knowing full well the endgame would be PvP, and then leave because of some complaint?

Now, if the shard had some increased PvM content, and frequent updates to continue content for those still playing (both PvP and PvM), then that would cater to many parties (casual, hardcore, PvPer, PvMer, etc.).

TLDR version: slowing skills leaves casual players in the dust, especially if gaining skills are only allowed in certain places in the world (going to have griefers camping those locations). Someone said logging in every so often for "endgame" is bad...well, a PvP shard's engame -IS- PvP. If you don't like it, then the shard would need updates in order to maintain content for everyone (PvP, PvM, casual, hardcore, etc.). The goal here is to make the game enjoyable for all as well as making people play the game the way it was intending; slow skill gains is the wrong way to go...just look at Darkfall (1.5 years and people still don't have maxed characters).

Suggestion: allow for "power hour" back in the day, or some way to promote fast skill gains on monsters by actually playing the game. Darkfall did this in their later stages because the grind was so horrendous. They allowed for much faster gains on mobs/players, so that people weren't macroing 24/7 and getting banned by GMs for doing so (which was stupid, since that was the only way to be/stay competitive).

[redHusarz]

Although the variety of PVP (O/C, pirating, pking, etc...) will be one of the highlights of the server, it wont be the only one. One of the goals of the new IPY will be to cater to all play styles, not just PVPers. PvM content will be improved and added. Quote from the main website regarding PvE: "With titles, achievements, pve powered items, unlockable extra dungeon levels, uber world bosses and incredibly difficult raids. IPY intends to add a long absent pve endgame into classic ultima online...one that won't interfere with pvp or become and endless grind."

Az has also hinted about an RoT system and skill scrolls on the main site: "...to incentivize once again playing the game instead of macroing (such as skill scrolls and our own brand of RT designed to help regular players keep up with macroers)." So I guess we'll have to wait for more information.

As for power hour, I believe Az has already stated he is against that idea, one reason I believe is that it influences peoples real life schedules and causes stress on the server.

EDIT: It wasn't Az, it was Woodlife answering questions about the old IPY here: http://inporylem.com/forum/showthread.php?33-Ruleset-FAQ-anywhere&highlight=power+hour

Q: Is there power hour?
A: No, this shard has been created for those who recognize UO is more important than life and powerhour only gives an advantage to those who try to interact in the outside world. It was also a system put in place to save bandwidth for OSI and make the game easier. We're not fond of this.

[Jack Straw]

I was red on OSI without a skill over 80 for the majority of the time I played.

When I GM'd eval I GM'd it casting Explosion on some guy trying to run away through the teleporter in Bucs.

Then I learned about 8x8 and EasyUO (with its carto script and all that) and I don't remember how/when I GM'd my other skills. Maybe that is saying something..

I just don't know if I'll get the same satisfaction out of it that I did back then.


Auth: I get your concern but RoT + skill scrolls are in place to stop this. The person who macros 24/7 should, in theory, be left behind in comparison to the person who actually plays the game for a few hours a day because they're not getting the advantage of hunting for skill scrolls and the like. Every game has people who put incredible amounts of hours into it to become the best (in terms of numbers) -- I say let them eat cake. If someone honestly wants to play hard for a few weeks to get an edge, maybe they should get that edge. It'll eventually even out.

[Thayn]

No skill gains in houses.


and towns :D

As a Smith and a Crafter, to both of you, I say...

Hell No.

Am I supposed to find an anvil in a dungeon or something? Tailor on the back of a dragon? Tinker on a boat surrounded by Krakens?

COMBAT/PvE skills, Ok.. But leave me to mess around with my tools in peace!

[skimmo]

TLDR version: slowing skills leaves casual players in the dust, especially if gaining skills are only allowed in certain places in the world (going to have griefers camping those locations). Someone said logging in every so often for "endgame" is bad...well, a PvP shard's engame -IS- PvP. If you don't like it, then the shard would need updates in order to maintain content for everyone (PvP, PvM, casual, hardcore, etc.). The goal here is to make the game enjoyable for all as well as making people play the game the way it was intending; slow skill gains is the wrong way to go...just look at Darkfall (1.5 years and people still don't have maxed characters).


And? Are you suggesting that people shouldn't be rewarded for more time invested?

This is not WoW where a new item set is out by the time you collect the current one. I can understand your argument in that situation, because gear is extremely important in some games, and yes, the only way to compete is to grind long hours to keep up with gear inflation. BUT: in UO once you hit 7xGM that is, and will always be, as far as you can go. So you'll get to 7xgm later than some nerd with no life. So some people will have an advantage (which is deserved, because they invested more time). But this advantage is temporary.

That said, mega slow skill gain is a tad annoying, but far less annoying than an empty world.

[Romp]

Slowing skill gains isn't necessarily good either though. Consider the casual player who only gets to play 2 hours a night.

That'd be me, and I say why base the entire economy over a game based on the lowest common denominator. I'm more happy knowing the world will be a living, breathing organic experience due to people actually adventuring in it, rather than this being Hybrid mach2.



those who play 24/7, or know the game inside and out to macro 24/7 practically. By the time he gets his 1x GM, he'll be COMPLETELY dominated by someone who has spent countless hours GMing 7x (mainly due to the slow skill increase), and will probably quit the game since his content his limited to what he can kill (and what will probably also be camped by those who like to prey on newbs).

People who have no job & no family are going to be like that in every game. I've done it, I think most of us have. If they're willing to put in the time and effort then good for them. Why disqualify players based on the fact that some of us only have 2 hours a night? in fact, I'd be lucky to get an hour in as it is.

You're also forgetting that there are systems in place that players can take ownership over, that will seriously impede on newbies being spawn camped. Where it is busy with blues, there will be reds, but where there are reds there will also be paladins. There won't be senseless newb killing for long in any area before people call their pally mates. That's one of the great things about what's happening here. Players will have the power to police.


Slowing skill gain isn't the answer. Any type of grind has always been the downfall.

Maybe you've played a few too many FPS's, but an MMORPG is supposed to be both demanding and rewarding, fun and social etc, but it's also supposed to take time. catering to people who think the end-game is only PvP is pretty much shard-death. Again, it'd by Hybrid mach2. This shard is doing more than to cater for people that want to macro to 7xgm and flog newbs.


but if a setting in a game caters to people who play 24/7 to become infinitely better than a player who can only play casually, then it becomes a huge issue.;

It sounds like you're annoyed that other people have more time than you. It sounds like I have even less time then you and I disagree with you.


I was lead to believe that this shard would be quite centered on PvP, so I don't understand why people are saying "they're only going to hop in for some 'endgame' and then leave." Well, endgame is PvP, and this shard is centered around it, so I don't see why you would want to just grind some skills knowing full well the endgame would be PvP, and then leave because of some complaint?

Endgame is not PvP. The endgame is whatever people want it to be. UO is a sandbox, some PvP, some craft, some social engineer. This shard has added new elements like Pirating, Detectives, Kings and so on for more to sink your teeth in to.


Now, if the shard had some increased PvM content, and frequent updates to continue content for those still playing (both PvP and PvM), then that would cater to many parties (casual, hardcore, PvPer, PvMer, etc.).

Which it does. Maybe you've not read too much.


TLDR version: slowing skills leaves casual players in the dust, especially if gaining skills are only allowed in certain places in the world (going to have griefers camping those locations).

Again, where there is dark, there will be light ;)


Someone said logging in every so often for "endgame" is bad...well, a PvP shard's engame -IS- PvP.

You keep throwing this around. Mind finding me where the shard owner says that the endgame is PvP?


The goal here is to make the game enjoyable for all as well as making people play the game the way it was intending; slow skill gains is the wrong way to go...just look at Darkfall (1.5 years and people still don't have maxed characters).

You sound more like you want the game to be enjoyable for you. If you cared about it being enjoyable for all you wouldn't be saying the endgame is PvP. I PvP, I only ever have, but I recognize that there is more to the game than that. Also, when we started playing Darkfall we knew it was a grind fest. We made the executive decision to play even though maxing was not within our sights. You can still be competitive without being maxed, also, if being maxed is such a huge issue then maybe something like Call of Duty would have been better off for the people that care.

You sound like an instant gratification kind of person, why should any mmo at all cater to you? you have plenty of games that'd suit you better.


so that people weren't macroing 24/7 and getting banned by GMs for doing so (which was stupid, since that was the only way to be/stay competitive).


See, you've said it yourself. Macroing is terrible.

[Diz]

Faithless, you clearly blew out the collective asshole of an entire small village with that post.

But maybe instead of telling him there are other games that will suit his taste more, try and flip the ollllll script and drop some knowledge on that cat bout shit he mite b down wit udig boiiiii

[Jack Straw]

Am I supposed to find an anvil in a dungeon or something? Tailor on the back of a dragon? Tinker on a boat surrounded by Krakens?

I believe you should get accelerated skill gain for tailoring on the back of a dragon

[Romp]

I believe you should get accelerated skill gain for tailoring on the back of a dragon

Confirmed.

[Bc of SAS]

We talked about ROT and all that a while back on Az's blog. I know we aren't going with a ROT system, or I assume we aren't, but my understanding is that it will have some of the same fundamentals. ROT made SP a lot of fun, it allowed people of all skill levels (both actual skill and on paper skill) to enjoy the game no matter what stage they or their character were at.

I honestly think it will make people play more.. if you have your 7x after macroing you log in and pvp then get bored or action dies head to bed. This way you will already be playing your character trying to advance him, and the other parts that you find fun will be a result.

[Jay]

Biggest supporter of slow skill gain right here.

I've made that many characters the thought of starting fresh AGAIN on a new server makes my insides turn. But at the same time I want this server to have meaning, so if it means making 5 new characters I'd much rather it take 5 times as long to make a full character, otherwise it becomes too easy to make throw away characters or simply put less thought into a template because you can change it in a day at any time... I wanna see things like the Bone Knight wall in deceit back in action and see people working together at lower skill levels rather than just playing 7xgm characters all the time farming/pvping... People will eventually all have a 7xgm character, maybe even 5... But they will have earned that and diserve to have that advantage over people who cant be assed. On top of that they will be well thought out characters as I was saying before.

[Thayn]

I believe you should get accelerated skill gain for tailoring on the back of a dragon


Confirmed.

....

Ok... I can agree to that. :D

That aside, I am definitely in favor for a slow skill gain, but I hope that these changes won't require the resources to finish crafting skills to increase exponentially. I could see doubling that requirement (Think 50 to GM Blacksmithing is about, what, 60K if you recycle, so 120K isn't that outlandish), but not too much beyond.

At that point, it becomes a race between IPY and Carpel Tunnel for who will have dominion over my wrist...

Don't put me in that position.... Whoever wins, I lose.

[abm]

As a Smith and a Crafter, to both of you, I say...

Hell No.

Am I supposed to find an anvil in a dungeon or something? Tailor on the back of a dragon? Tinker on a boat surrounded by Krakens?

COMBAT/PvE skills, Ok.. But leave me to mess around with my tools in peace!

This is countered by keeping skill gain in towns. I am not opposed to that at all. But what is bad about pushing all crafters into town?

[Jay]

Some will complain about their stored resources in their houses... Small price to pay to stop everyone unatended macroing every skill in their house to gm

[Travis]

Theres always going to be skills, where you can argue about gain in town or not.
Blacksmithing, I would want to keep gaining in town, but Magery I'd rather have gaining outside.
So imo, the best way would be to have all skills picked with Gain/No gain in town, instead of all/none.

[Thayn]

This is countered by keeping skill gain in towns. I am not opposed to that at all. But what is bad about pushing all crafters into town?

I thought the intent of that aspect of my reply was that the poster was AGAINST gaining skill while in town. If I am mistaken, I apologize.

If you want to GAIN crafting skills in TOWNS only, sure, I could understand that. Although I like the option to chose where I socialize and gain skill (Guild has a tower where we all meet in peace, pool our resources, no thieves, etc.), I wouldn't object to this.

[Jack]

Here's a question: considering the organic nature of skill gain and how Az wants people to actually play, actively, to build skills.... do you guys think that the system where skills gain much faster if you are further from the cap is out of place? Or still good or what?

It means that if you GM resist as your first skill on a char, it might cost you (just a guess for comparison purposes) 50k and 10 hours... but if you do it as your final skill, it costs hundreds of thousands and 50-100 hours. Is this a good thing or not? I always thought it benefitted people with arcane knowledge of the system but sort of hurt newbs, and it really allows people to 'ruin' their characters.

Will people be less likely to go out gaining while 'adventuring' if they know that every point of hiding they gain will make their resist that much more difficult to raise?

[Jay]

Here's a question: considering the organic nature of skill gain and how Az wants people to actually play, actively, to build skills.... do you guys think that the system where skills gain much faster if you are further from the cap is out of place? Or still good or what?

It means that if you GM resist as your first skill on a char, it might cost you (just a guess for comparison purposes) 50k and 10 hours... but if you do it as your final skill, it costs hundreds of thousands and 50-100 hours. Is this a good thing or not? I always thought it benefitted people with arcane knowledge of the system but sort of hurt newbs, and it really allows people to 'ruin' their characters.

Will people be less likely to go out gaining while 'adventuring' if they know that every point of hiding they gain will make their resist that much more difficult to raise?

I personally hate this system. You should not have to build your character around doing the hardest skills first, there is no way this promotes going out and being a part of the world unless you plan on pvping with med/swords/wrestling/tactics/eval locked on 0 on your mage untill your resist/magery naturally get to GM out in the field.

[Jack]

Agree with this. It's a lame mechanic.

[Elric[GoD]]

I personally hate this system. You should not have to build your character around doing the hardest skills first, there is no way this promotes going out and being a part of the world unless you plan on pvping with med/swords/wrestling/tactics/eval locked on 0 on your mage untill your resist/magery naturally get to GM out in the field.

I agree. This is how ********:Hybrid works. It's an ok system when you have resources, but on a brand new server where you only have 1k gold that you started your character with, it's horrible. When I started out on Hybrid I had to waste my time making a trash character with mining and fighting skills. I'd rather be able to work any skill first or last and have the same difficulty with it.

[Jay]

It's not even a good system if you have resources. You should be able to gain every skill at the same time, or be able to pick what you see is more important to you short term.

[Travis]

I agree.
I'd rather have the overall skill gain slowed a bit, than have to worry about which skills I gain first.

[Jay]

rather have it all slowed a lot :)

Rather every skill be as hard to get to gm as the 7th skill is on hybrid.

[abm]

Skill balls made it easy.

[Diz]

Skill balls made it easy.

Your mom's a skill ball.

That was too easy and in bad taste. For that, I apologize, but I will NEVER REFUTE ITS HUMOR. I ORDERED THE CODE RED. YES THEY DESERVED TO DIE, AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!

[Travis]

rather have it all slowed a lot :)

Rather every skill be as hard to get to gm as the 7th skill is on hybrid.

a lot slower is fine too.
As long you don't have to worry about screwing up halfway with your skills, after training a wrong one, or whatever.
Since RoT will harm newbies a lot more than vets

[abm]

Your mom's a skill ball.

That was too easy and in bad taste. For that, I apologize, but I will NEVER REFUTE ITS HUMOR. I ORDERED THE CODE RED. YES THEY DESERVED TO DIE, AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!

Down under we say mum* But I accept your apology and humbly request that we never speak of this incident ever again.

[Severus]

There will always be those with more time to play. I understand the theory that by slowing skill gain it will take longer to reach maximum skill and the thought is that if you extend it far enough people will just play. However, I think this will end up hurting the folks who have less time to devote. The power gamers will still devote just as much time as they always have and will be able to move forward. They will make progress towards their goal of hitting 7x. I am here to advocate a system that still provides someone with only a couple of hours to devote at a time a feeling of progress and satisfaction. We've all gotten a lot older since the glory days, and I don't want to find myself "grinding."

Whatever it takes to get people out into the world and raising skills in the environment would be great in my opinion. I'm also ok with dueling with your friends to raise skill, but I don't want to see the people summoning elementals in the corner of their house for days on end if it can be avoided.

TL;DR Don't slow it down to the detriment of players with less time, but also find a way to limit unattended macroers.

[Jay]

Slow it down massively but speed it up in dungeons. There is nothing wrong with this system, you cant UM in dungeons efficently so that problem is solved. Even if you dont have a lot of time to play you can still make a 7xgm char through difficult skill gain, it might mean you cant have an account full of 7xgms any time soon, but then that is a reward for those who can dedicate lives to playing this game, why shouldn't they have that advantage over someone who spends 1 hour a day? 5 hours a week? whatever? At least those of us who don't spend as much time in game get the addition of oh lets say, a life? a girlfriend? money? Let the powergamer have their 5 x 7xGM char advantage short term.

[Jack Straw]

Rather every skill be as hard to get to gm as the 7th skill is on hybrid.

I still 7x'd on Hybrid in a day, maybe a day and a half.

I think Az has been pondering this for a long time and we've talked about it more than once on his blog. I think he'll make a good decision. If someone really wants to devote their time to being the first 7x on IPY2 within a few weeks, go for it. He/she/zie has my .. gamer respect? The rest of us will catch up in due time and we'll all get on with our merry lives.

[Jay]

I can 7xGM pretty much any template on Hybrid in a day. It's rediculous.

[Diz]

Honestly that's sort of depressing. But is also nice for an arcadey "jump in" feel, I suppose.

[Jay]

The jump in quickly feel is quickly ruined by the fact that there is no weight on your actions because characters are so easy to make. There is no crafting econemy because everyone has their own mule (even though no one really uses gm crafted stuff there anymore anyway) Seriously, I started doing champ spawns on my blue tamer and when some blues came along I just murdered all of them... Got into the 100s of counts thinking "oh well I'll just make another one if I have any reason for having a blue tamer" One day I felt like having another blue tamer and in a couple of days of only playing a couple of hours a day I had a new 7xgm blue tamer.

[Remixninja]

I remember the days when having GM resist was unheard of, and if you had it ebolts would bounce off you like nerf arrows...

[Jack Straw]

The jump in quickly feel is quickly ruined by the fact that there is no weight on your actions because characters are so easy to make. There is no crafting econemy because everyone has their own mule (even though no one really uses gm crafted stuff there anymore anyway) Seriously, I started doing champ spawns on my blue tamer and when some blues came along I just murdered all of them... Got into the 100s of counts thinking "oh well I'll just make another one if I have any reason for having a blue tamer" One day I felt like having another blue tamer and in a couple of days of only playing a couple of hours a day I had a new 7xgm blue tamer.

Not to get off topic but I had no idea they had champ spawns there... Woah

The jump in is even more worthless because everyone is already established. You don't really "meet anyone" in Hybrid. The only reason I got a group for a while was because I was running around Delucia and started healing a solo red as he was being ganked. Which was good luck because most people on that shard would just say "hey thanks" and then come gank you later. I feel like if you have to hang out in the bone wall and talk to people and band with them against PK's rolling through Deceit you have much more of a chance of actually running into someone to PvP/PvE with.

The biggest problem with free shards is that guilds are already established and roll in with closed doors.

[Jay]

Not to get off topic but I had no idea they had champ spawns there... Woah

The jump in is even more worthless because everyone is already established. You don't really "meet anyone" in Hybrid. The only reason I got a group for a while was because I was running around Delucia and started healing a solo red as he was being ganked. Which was good luck because most people on that shard would just say "hey thanks" and then come gank you later. I feel like if you have to hang out in the bone wall and talk to people and band with them against PK's rolling through Deceit you have much more of a chance of actually running into someone to PvP/PvE with.

The biggest problem with free shards is that guilds are already established and roll in with closed doors.

Yeah they have champ spawns... I got sick of trying though, I usually solo stuff on Hybrid because there is almost no one on that I know in my time zone, problem is people have ghosts with alarm scripts running and when it gets close to the champ spawning it rings through their speakers... So every time I try and do a spawn, bout 1 min before champ spawns I get run in on by 4 or 5 people at a time ready to steal my stuff, so I gave up on that.


I wonder what will be the alternative to bone wall on IPY2.0, because when I think about it, it's not going to be a convinient way to gain skills. No recalling on or off ice island. You go to bone wall as a new(ish) player usually and not many new players will have gold to buy a boat to sail to and from bone ice/deceit/bone knight wall every time. So we're going to have to figure out a good alternative that is more accessible.

And re: problem with free shards is established guilds rolling in with clsoed doors, that's pretty true. I mean I'll be with a bunch of people I know from way back that I found out are keen come launch day to get back into UO, so I've got an established guild there. Doors wont be closed though, but we wouldn't be recruiting many people, have to impress us basically so it's semi closed doors :) but yeah having things like bone knight walls and interaction through the lower levels of character building will encourage people to make friends etc...

[Jack Straw]

I didn't know you couldn't recall to ice island.. why is that? It isn't a dungeon I thought recall was only supposed to be restricted in dungeons?.. That will affect housing for sure.

I'm sure the Jhelom pit fighters will be a pretty decent alternative.

I was just kinda using the bone wall as an example of what I remember happening.

[Jay]

I didn't know you couldn't recall to ice island.. why is that? It isn't a dungeon I thought recall was only supposed to be restricted in dungeons?.. That will affect housing for sure.

I'm sure the Jhelom pit fighters will be a pretty decent alternative.

I was just kinda using the bone wall as an example of what I remember happening.

I believe it's no recalling on ice island or fire island (I could be wrong but I'm sure I read this) that way it keeps the dungeons there harder to farm on... Higher level dungeons harder to access etc... Jhelom pit fighters might work, but it's not the same as the interaction and teamwork you get from bone wall, bone knight wall is the best example of this it's been brought up a few times on here and I'm glad it keeps popping up. Plus as I said hopefully its accellerated skill gain in dungeons, therefore jhelom pit fighters would suck anyway.

[Jack Straw]

I believe it's no recalling on ice island or fire island (I could be wrong but I'm sure I read this) that way it keeps the dungeons there harder to farm on... Higher level dungeons harder to access etc... Jhelom pit fighters might work, but it's not the same as the interaction and teamwork you get from bone wall, bone knight wall is the best example of this it's been brought up a few times on here and I'm glad it keeps popping up. Plus as I said hopefully its accellerated skill gain in dungeons, therefore jhelom pit fighters would suck anyway.

Hire them and go to a dungeon :)

[Jay]

Hire them and go to a dungeon :)

It would get killed in 5 minutes.

[Jack Straw]

Now you're just fighting my hypothetical with hypothetical. This could get messy.

[Diz]

I am GM in Theorycrafting. You fools! You've fallen right... into... my... TRAP!!!!

[Jay]

Hypothetical wars is all we can do right now. Let me have this :(

[Jack Straw]

We can have hypothetical forum PvP..


Des Mani

[abm]

Vas Ylem Rel.

[Jack Straw]

An Mani

I totally disrupted that.

[Jay]

fuck this shit I'm out of here "you have hidden yourself well"

[abm]

Wis Quas

[Jay]

HAXXOR

[Severus]

Man, you have to hand it to the original developers for linking each spell to those power words. It's ridiculous how every UO player still knows so many spells just by those power words.

Disclaimer: super nerdy story ahead.

If my buddy or I were in a sticky situation, like the teacher was grilling us or parents yelling at us, we'd look to the other one and mouth/say Kal Ort Por! Ahhh memories.

[Travis]

Kinda revokes the right to laugh at Harry Potter fans, when they start babbling about how to say the spell names..

[skimmo]

If my buddy or I were in a sticky situation, like the teacher was grilling us or parents yelling at us, we'd look to the other one and mouth/say Kal Ort Por! Ahhh memories.

Argggh my brain

[Jack Straw]

If my buddy or I were in a sticky situation, like the teacher was grilling us or parents yelling at us, we'd look to the other one and mouth/say Kal Ort Por! Ahhh memories.

I hope your rune wasn't marked for the exact same spot, that would have been awkward.

[Jay]

Kinda revokes the right to laugh at Harry Potter fans, when they start babbling about how to say the spell names..

Nah... Keep laughing at them please.

[abm]

Just quietly I am pretty excited about the latest movie coming out...

[Jay]

Never watched a full Harry Potter movie.

Watched half of one and turned it off

[Diz]

Dude you are not above Harry Potter.

Nobody is above Harry Potter. Cept Voldemort or that Gandalf guy or whatever.

You can't help but catch one once in a while. They aren't that bad, but I guess they're for kids so not that in depth or interesting to me personally.

[Jay]

I tried, honestly... But then fuckers were flying around on broom sticks playing footy or something and that was enough for me. :(

[Diz]

Yeah, wack. But don't act above Harry Potter man. Harry Potter will go all LIGHTNING BOLT on your ass or something.

[Severus]

As a side note, my name isn't from HP. Just putting that out there, I grabbed it off a wikipedia page about Roman nobility when making a name for Shadowbane, lol.

Also back to the skill gain discussion: I hopped onto Hybrid last night to get a feel for the game a bit, and because I'm too excited for IPY at the moment to contain myself. I decided I needed to bump my Dex and so started hiding. I woke up this morning to 100 Hiding, and it immediately hit me that I didn't feel even the slightest bit excited that I GM'd something. Accelerated skill gain cheapens the experience so much. I'm now all sorts of in favor of encouraging everyone to savor the journey by making the skill gains a bit slower than usual. If I don't actually get a chance to run around and try hiding, only to have it fail at a bad time, I'm not going to enjoy being a GM and being able to hide all over the place quite as much. That's just one example, another being trying to recall out of a sticky situation only to have it fizzle.

Gotta have people live the life of someone with mediocre skill for awhile so they realize how good they have it once they put the work in to raise the skill up.

[Jay]

You didn't need to go to bed to get to GM, you probably would have gmed it in around an hour or two

[Epsilon]

I thought I was the only one who actually skilled up by playing the game. That's why I play servers like these.