Monsanto

[wgehalo]

Anyone heard about this corporation?
They own some patent on a gene in their seeds that was engineered to crossbreed very easily.
Then they test other farmers crops for their genes and if they have them they demand a cut.
It's like a food mafia....

[Professional]

They've been pulling this for years. They plant a small crop of their patented plant and just wait for the seeds to blow over the fence, then sue the pants off of the real farmers who just happened to be downwind.

It's a disgrace if you ask me.

[Psyche]

They started this with corn, and have moved on to soybeans and other large crops. They patented genetic information (a whole other debate) that is in their corn seed, and they "lease" you seeds to grow crops. The farmer never technically owns the seed because it contains patented intellectual property. Farmers can't even save leftover seeds to use the next year, it all has to be returned to Monsanto or destroyed, and more seed bought the next growing season. It is a huge corporate scam of farmers and the american people (and other countries, but it's an american corporation).

Unfortunately no individual farmer has the financial resources to actually fight them in court, and most that try to fight end up setting after they run themselves up a debt of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Watch Food Inc. if you want to learn more about the food industry.

[wgehalo]

It seems like the best thing to do would to be revoke all patents on genetic information. It's pretty easy to see how exploitative this is, the fact that it's allowed astounds me. I know it probably shouldn't though considering all the other corruption in the world.
At least I have weed and UO.

[tpopcaz]

I believe they did something like this with sugar cane where I'm from. From what I heard they created a crop that should never get any kind of fungus and stuff. Not sure if they doing the whole sueing thing

[pigglywiggly]

a guy i know, his family owns or operates cargil, they are seed mafia. big money, big ****ing money.

[monkeyrocket]

At least I have weed and UO.

*ahem*

[DeeDs]

pothead!

[wgehalo]

Oh...and my Girl =D

[monkeyrocket]

Oh...and my Girl =D

=))

[Zorce]

Monsanto are globalists. Their goal is to get rid of normal every day seeds so everyone has to rely on them for their GMO seeds.
They also own the insecticide repellent RoundUp. They have modified their corn to resist RoundUp so they sell their corn seed to farmers and farmers buy roundup and spray it on their crops.

GMO crops are suspected to cause new cancers and such. Not to mention the RoundUp cant be good, altered or not.

Those who control the food supply control the world.

http://www.infowars.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com

[Alfie Garganey]

This thread is full os misinformed people and im not gonna waste my time enlightening you about seed business and the monopoly that roundup caused

All you need to know is:

-theres not one naive farmer in the world.

-The area of breeding both from soy and corn is very limited which make this conspiracy theory dumb.

-GMO is better because it dont need as many insecticide as the food we had in the 90`s.


Other then that you can all buy some pitchforks and gasoline if you continue to believe in everything you read/listen without thinking about it or asking someone from the area.

[Zorce]

GMO is better

You can go on and eat your GMO and I will continue to eat organic which for some reason the government has been trying to pass bills to ban. Hmmm.

[Alfie Garganey]

go eat some bean sprouts
hope you dont die due to feces

[Az]

Relax, there.

[Zorce]

go eat some bean sprouts
hope you dont die due to feces

lol wow, never seen anyone defend genetically altered food so much

That was pretty funny though lol

[Stephan]

It seems like the best thing to do would to be revoke all patents on genetic information. It's pretty easy to see how exploitative this is, the fact that it's allowed astounds me. I know it probably shouldn't though considering all the other corruption in the world.
At least I have weed and UO.


No!

Ok, this is my field of study so I am a bit biased and overknowledgeable on all of this but here is my take on the issue. There NEEDS to be patents on genes in order to give incentive to study in the area. Without the potential for profit, no research will be done and genetic studies will stagnate.

However, patent law was developed before the concept of genetic modification was even thought up. The laws pertaining to all patents also apply to genetic patents. This means that a single company can put in maybe 2-4 years of research on a gene and own it outright for decades later. This is the heart of the problem. Not only does it stifle research (i.e., a company will not look for multiple ways to accomplish the same goal since one gene patent will last them decades), but it allows companies like Monsanto to take huge advantages over other farmers based on decades-old research.

[G.G.]

Yes, they make Round Up. They are the devil. Watch the FREE and easily available documentary film, 'Future of Food' ... it will make you cry in disgust and scream in frustration.

They are beyond corrupt. Their employees go through a revolving door between working for them and working for the government making the very laws that regulate their former and future employer.

They use two sides of the same law. They say their product is unique and subject to patent law for when they argue for their patent rights. Then they argue that it is the 'same' and therefore reasonably safe so they can bypass any kind of safety regulations.

[Stephan]

Monsanto are globalists. Their goal is to get rid of normal every day seeds so everyone has to rely on them for their GMO seeds.
They also own the insecticide repellent RoundUp. They have modified their corn to resist RoundUp so they sell their corn seed to farmers and farmers buy roundup and spray it on their crops.

GMO crops are suspected to cause new cancers and such. Not to mention the RoundUp cant be good, altered or not.

Those who control the food supply control the world.

http://www.infowars.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com

People like you are the worst type of people on the internet! Not only are you completely misinformed, but you talk as if you actually know something and link to conspiracy websites as your support. If you are going to believe in nonsense, go ahead, but don't try to take everyone else down with you!

GMOs do not cause cancer and your suggesting that it does reveals a large gap in your understanding of genetic modification and genetics in general.

my source: 4 years of molecular & cellular biology and soon to begin phD studies in biochemistry. did work on GMOs for two years starting 3 years ago and began cancer research last year.

[G.G.]

How would you know that genetically modified is completely without health risks or consequences such as cancer? They have never been tested. You are not much of a scientist if you claim something emphatically without any kind of long-term hard proved study or concrete evidence.

Shame on you.

The problem is not the 'watchdogs' ...err... conspiracy theorists. Its the people who say, 'Oh its all a conspiracy, don't listen to those wackos, they don't know what they are talking about. They don't have all the facts.'

[Stephan]

How would you know that genetically modified is completely without health risks or consequences such as cancer? They have never been tested. You are not much of a scientist if you claim something emphatically without any kind of long-term hard proved study or concrete evidence.

Shame on you.

GG, if you had even a basic knowledge of genetic modification you would not need to ask that question. However, apparently you do not so I will enlighten you. Genetic modification adds or removes genes that we have found elsewhere in the natural environment. Let me give you an example from a project I was personally involved with.

I took part the longest-running agricultural experiment in history still going on at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. For over a century they have been selectively breeding corn to provide the highest protein and highest carbohydrate levels. This is done by something called a gene "copynumber." The more copies of a specific gene in the genome of a particular organism, the higher chance it has of being transcribed by RNA polymerase, and the higher its concentration of it's specific protein in the cell cytoplasm. Pretty simple concept.

Now, why is genetic modification f*cking awesome? The professors I worked with accomplished the same protein and carbohydrate levels achieved through 100 years of selective breeding by isolating the genes and amplifying their copy number artificially. In two f*cking years they accomplished over a century's worth of work. NONE of these genes caused cancer originally and there is NOTHING to say that they will now. They merely amplified the copy number. This plant is now "genetically modified" and people like yourself would be adversed to eating it due to unfounded beliefs and misinformation. It is sad.

For a GMO to cause cancer you must specifically alter it to include a carcinogenic gene. Plain and simple.

[Stephan]

The ONLY people who are emphatically against genetic modification do not understand how it works. I think that says a lot.

[Stephan]

Testing some of these things for ability to cause cancer because of the general public's fear of the unknown is an irresponsible waste of resources. It would be akin to me refusing to go to the bank before a controlled study is released that says the bank does not cause cancer.

Cancer does not follow from genetic modification, uninformed people just link them together because they are both complicated biological concepts that laymen do not understand.

[Alfie Garganey]

GG, if you had even a basic knowledge of genetic modification you would not need to ask that question. However, apparently you do not so I will enlighten you. Genetic modification adds or removes genes that we have found elsewhere in the natural environment. Let me give you an example from a project I was personally involved with.

I took part the longest-running agricultural experiment in history still going on at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. For over a century they have been selectively breeding corn to provide the highest protein and highest carbohydrate levels. This is done by something called a gene "copynumber." The more copies of a specific gene in the genome of a particular organism, the higher chance it has of being transcribed by RNA polymerase, and the higher its concentration of it's specific protein in the cell cytoplasm. Pretty simple concept.

Now, why is genetic modification f*cking awesome? The professors I worked with accomplished the same protein and carbohydrate levels achieved through 100 years of selective breeding by isolating the genes and amplifying their copy number artificially. In two f*cking years they accomplished over a century's worth of work. NONE of these genes caused cancer originally and there is NOTHING to say that they will now. They merely amplified the copy number. This plant is now "genetically modified" and people like yourself would be adversed to eating it due to unfounded beliefs and misinformation. It is sad.

For a GMO to cause cancer you must specifically alter it to include a carcinogenic gene. Plain and simple.

im so happy you exist in these forums

intelligence is refreshing as water in a thread like this

[Alfie Garganey]

lol wow, never seen anyone defend genetically altered food so much

That was a pretty funny though lol

i dont know if you got the *hook*

but many people died due to some organic bred bean sprouts in europe

[G.G.]

Life is so complex and to claim that you KNOW exactly the impact that genetic engineering has upon it is just a touch on the side of monumentally arrogant.

[Stephan]

I'm arrogant in my knowledge because I actually understand the concepts behind both genetic modification and the causes of cancer? So be it. Your entire argument is that since cancer and genetic modification are both complex biological concepts that one must be linked to the other. This isn't even admitted ignorance, its just plain stupidity.


Edit: I think the arrogance falls upon you for saying "shame on you" to the only person who seems to understand both of these concepts in this thread (me).

[G.G.]

Understanding concepts and knowing something is fact is two completely different things. I refer again to my last statement about monumental arrogance.

[Stephan]

Understanding concepts leads to knowing whether something is fact. Understanding the concepts behind Bernoulli's principle lead to the understanding of the fact of flight; your blind stupidity (it is no longer ignorance after I educate you and you refuse to admit when wrong) leads to only accusing the knowledgeable of arrogance while flaunting one's own lack of critical thinking beyond watching a documentary.

Once again, your entire argument is "I dont know enough about this subject to say this cannot happen, and this person does, so they must be arrogant!"

[Soletaken]

I make no claim as to real understanding here, but I definitely think the arrogance in this thread is coming from a dude putting a bit too much stock in his Bachelor's degree.

As far as I am aware, there have not been conclusive, controlled, long-term studies supporting either side. While a large portion of GM food development practices are probably safe, I think it is going a bit far to say that there is zero possible way that GM food can have negative health effects. Using viral or bacterial gene transfer methods conceivably COULD cause complications with immune systems, creating cancer-friendly inflammation, etc. Also, though they never made it to the human food market because they were caught, there have been examples of unexpected allergens being passed into GM produce, which speaks to the possibility of other unexpected issues. The fact that there IS scientifically fueled controversy is evidence of the fact that other educated people have different thoughts or findings.

I have no horse in this. I will eat anything, and I think organic is a joke too. But I do think that to simply dismiss the concerns of others (some of those others including real scientists and toxicologists who are part of the overall controversy) as being completely born of ignorance is, itself, profoundly ignorant.

[wgehalo]

The debate isn't whether GMOs are good or bad...
It's that Monsanto is basically strong arming profits from everyone with their cross breeding "patented" genes.

[Stephan]

The scientific controversy of GMO foods is not related to health concerns; it is related to the macroscale effects on a global ecosystem. Those are real concerns.

A concern that roundup ready corn is going to give you cancer is based out of ignorance, whether or not you consider me to be a "real" scientist.

[wgehalo]

Ok.
But what about this cross-breeding mafia style tactic? Let's focus on that!

[Stephan]

Monsanto is a piece of **** company, I'm not going to argue with you there. Their business practices, rather than technology use, are the problem.

[Psyche]

I really have no issue with GMO / genetically altered foods. I think it is a viable field of study and could solve a lot of food shortage problems in the world. My problem is with the ethics and practices of Monsanto and their legal department. They are able to sue a farmer who has never once planted their seeds, just because that farmers neighbor planted it. It's pretty brilliant when you actually think about it... Corn's life cycle forces one plant to pollinate another in order for the edible part to grow, and there is no feasible way to stop cross pollination from one farm to the next.

Monsanto sues innocent farmers and forces them to find other lines of work, or to fight them and rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and still end up settling the case and finding another line of work. They have effectively created a monopoly of the corn industry, and they are spreading the same legal tactics to other plants as well. A hundred years ago, government and universities funded crop experiments, and seed was freely available to anyone that wanted to use it. Now all corn farmers are forced to deal with Monsanto, because there is basically no other game in town. If that isn't a monopoly then I don't know what is.

With their line of legal thinking, pharmaceutical companies could create medicines and procedures that genetically alter a person's DNA. And would technically own the person because they own the patent on the genetic mutation. This scenario would probably never play out, since people would never stand for being owned by a corporation. But people are either too stupid or too lazy to care if a corporation owns the majority of one of the biggest plant crops in the world.

[Epsilon]

I'm arrogant in my knowledge because I actually understand the concepts behind both genetic modification and the causes of cancer? So be it. Your entire argument is that since cancer and genetic modification are both complex biological concepts that one must be linked to the other. This isn't even admitted ignorance, its just plain stupidity.


Edit: I think the arrogance falls upon you for saying "shame on you" to the only person who seems to understand both of these concepts in this thread (me).

Well, when we don't completely understand many concepts fully, it is not good to say the burden of proof falls on the skeptic. I agree that we shouldn't jump to conclusions, and people are afraid of things they don't understand. Just admit that our knowledge of concepts are still becoming more clear as we go. Being able to modify things doesn't mean we understand 100% of the process. There is still a lot of speculation going on, even when things seem to "work". I still think genetic modification is a tool for today.

And if you guys get angry at the genetic patent, get angry at the legal system.

[Zorce]

People like you are the worst type of people on the internet! Not only are you completely misinformed, but you talk as if you actually know something and link to conspiracy websites as your support. If you are going to believe in nonsense, go ahead, but don't try to take everyone else down with you!

GMOs do not cause cancer and your suggesting that it does reveals a large gap in your understanding of genetic modification and genetics in general.

my source: 4 years of molecular & cellular biology and soon to begin phD studies in biochemistry. did work on GMOs for two years starting 3 years ago and began cancer research last year.

Conspiracy websites? lol more like alternative media since the mainstream media are corporate whores who leave out crap that they feel is in their best interest and swing it in a left or right political direction. The majority of material on sites like those are taken from the horses mouth of open declassified documents and whistle blowers and links to sources unlike alot of the websites you must be thinking about. If some want to stay plugged into the matrix, drink their fluoride, and become corporate drone mouth pieces and live like sheeple then so be it. Yeah GMO is so great. Most of the beef now is GMO. Milk is altered from hormones given to the cows and other animals to make them larger and produce more while sending 5 to 8 year old girls into puberty and making men grow man boobs. Its not just Monsanto, its everywhere. Google cows that that are part human and produce human milk. You cant make this crap up and this is good? lmfao

[Stephan]

When you say "sheeple" you immediately lose all credibility. I'm not a "mainstream media whore" I'm an educated person who has studied this field for years.

Alex Jones does not know more about GMOs than me, period. Alex Jones panders to people like you who believe they are the only informed people on the planet. It is a brilliant charade on his part, he can take advantage of the nutjob demographic such as yourself. Go read more about chemtrails (contrails for you non-idiots) and the corporate hoax of global warming, you uneducated conspiracy twat

And no, NOTHING from that website is taken from any credible source. He is profiting off of your belief that others are misinforming you while you are being completely misinformed by this idiot. The ONLY source of real information left in this world is peer-reviewed journals, and that is the source of my knowledge after several years of study.

[Professional]

Go read more about contrails and the corporate hoax of global warming

They're called CHEMTRAILS, get it right you left-wing apologist. And it's now called GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE, you right-wing denier!

[Stephan]

Professional wins

[Psyche]

Of course global climate change is real, ever heard of the ice ages? :rolleyes:

[BizzyBeast]

Having witnessed a similar argument in person, Stephen is actually pretty in the know regarding the field. Although overly assumptious considering we truly dont know the adverse effects of skipping generations of growth via genetic manipulation. However screaming cancer is pretty baseless and cliche. Ive seen some monster veggies from my farmer friend and I dont understand his gibberish when he talks like Stephen, but making a squash 4-5x its normal size is both awesome and scary, regardless of how its done. Still I ate that buttered squash he cooked up and it was friggen delicious.

As for Global Warming, it isnt complete bull****. Whats complete bull**** is the timeframe and OUR direct cause. It happens often where the Ozone has holes plugged in it from meteorites, so I find it hard to believe Whipped Cream and hairspray is killing our natural atmospheric protection. Global Warming is going to happen regardless, our ice core samples have shown us a few Glacier Ages, more commonly called Ice Ages. Ignorant folks struggle to see the correlation between this and Global Warming. It saddens me to be having a conversation about it and someone laughs and says how can global warming cause colder weather. Sigh.

Anyway what happens is the glaciers melt down, raising both the temperature and level of the oceans. This caused some serious malfunctions to our climate and eventually envelops our planet in frozen tundra. So this process has happened even without our emissions. Whats argued is that we have rushed it and its retarded, if its a process that say happens every 250,000 years.. We may have shaved 20,000 (really reaching here) years from it. Its not happening tommorow because of us.

Also it bothers me that me dont push toward cleaner fuel.. The only thing coming out of the Global Warming fear machine.. Is a powerhouse like General Electric gets to build the only legal lightbulb to help us reduce the risks.

Bull****. Anyway this is all opinions based loosely on hearsay, slight factual information, and mostly assumptions.

[wgehalo]

I just think it's ****ty that Monsanto is getting away with it.

[Zeh]

It blows my mind people can take the stance that G.G. took:
"Life is so complex and to claim that you KNOW exactly the impact that genetic engineering has upon it is just a touch on the side of monumentally arrogant. "

This boils down to: "It's complex, and I don't understand it, so there is no way you can". They then proceed to push forward thier ridiculous preconceived notions.

Everytime I see this argument I want to smash my head on the desk. The fact that 40% of Americans still think the earth is 5000 years old is a sad sad sign of the ignorance scientists have to overcome to enlighten the masses.

I'm an Electrical Engineer, so I have very little background on GMO, but I really appreciated Stephan's explanation. It's nice to hear "the other side of the story" and not what is being puked out by people making documentaries. Saddly controversy and fear mongering sells better then science. :-(

I agree that the world is complex and sometimes there are unforseen consequences, but don't take the default stance of "I don't understand it, therefore it is evil". It's this kind of blind protesting that is crippling to progress. (Another example: Stem-Cell research)

Look at both sides of the story, don't watch some propaganda film and assume it's fact.

[Stephan]

^^^Zeh is the man. Also, Stem cells rock^^^^


I've heard this story many times but never seen a news article or anything of it ever actually happening. Can you post a source?

The story im referencing is one where a farmer plants GMO seeds and his neighbors crops are confiscated by monsanto for intellectual property rights violations.

I'm just a bit confused because the same professor I mentioned working with earlier has been developing (funded by monsanto) corn that does not produce pollen to prevent GMO corn from pollenating non-GMO corn (to protect their intellectual property on genes, I'd assume?).

[Dreathean]

Just watched Food Inc., pretty sad what Monsanto has been doing.

[Zeh]

Some links to "the other side of the story":

http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.safefoodinc.org/

I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but before people watch Food, Inc. and storm the capital, they should do more research and check those links out.

[Dreathean]

Hmm, that Monsanto link was pretty interesting. Definitely necessary to view their side as well. :p

[ishkabibbel2000]

Hrmm, since I'm a little late to this conversation, I'll abbreviate my points....

I don't believe **** I hear in mainstream media. If I hear a CONCEPT that intrigues me, I'll do my own research. Mainstream media is riddled with half truths and opinionated statements.

Documentaries are only good if they leave opinions out and only report the FACTS. AKA "The Universe". Fantastic Documentary about... well... the universe. (Black holes a trillion times the mass of our Sun?! HOLY ****)

Opinionated documentaries AKA anything Michael Moore are fun, but you can't read into them too far. Those are the kind of things that I would lump into the mainstream media category. Do your own research to follow up on them.

Mainstream media also overhypes EVERYTHING. They have ratings they need to hit. Just like any salesman has numbers goals. They aren't reporting all the news, they're reporting what makes you tune in... Every wonder why we're not hearing anything else about the nuclear reactors in Japan still being out of control but the credit crisis in Greece is on every news channel, in every newspaper in every city? The nuclear issue in Japan is significantly worse...

In conclusion... Mainstream media is The Debbil. Mama said so.

[Zeh]

ishkabibbel2000 gets my seal of approval and an e-highfive. Well put.

[Gunter666]

WATCH FOOD INC. !!!!

[Gunter666]

This thread is full os misinformed people and im not gonna waste my time enlightening you about seed business and the monopoly that roundup caused

All you need to know is:

-theres not one naive farmer in the world.

-The area of breeding both from soy and corn is very limited which make this conspiracy theory dumb.

-GMO is better because it dont need as many insecticide as the food we had in the 90`s.


Other then that you can all buy some pitchforks and gasoline if you continue to believe in everything you read/listen without thinking about it or asking someone from the area.

Ipy's Official "Most retarded post"

[Stephan]

Who needs a college education anyway, right?

Just watch documentaries or whatever. Gunter666 seems like he knows what he's talking about by appealing to a (false) authority and accusing others of retardation.

[Zeh]

WATCH FOOD INC. !!!!

Read my posts on the previous page.

[Gunter666]

First of all, I live in a town that is primarily agricultural; economically. 9/10 of my neighbors ARE farmers. I also have completed college, and it was not in FOOD INC., that I saw the light; everything that was happening there I knew since I was 12 years old. I have been to the hatfield plants, and I have seen the negatives of efficiency.

The OP was specifically referencing the Corporation, and for Alfie to say there is no naive farmer?? Perfectly references the 'veil between producer and consumer', few farmers even know about monsanto, and half the people in my town save seed, because they did not even know it was illegal until I showed them Food inc.

Monsanto also had a large roll in why we have such an 'immigration problem', and the jobs they create ' kill-houses' etc.. are largely employed by illegal immigrants; whom they subsequently deport to save themselves money.

Over 50% of america is planted with corn, seems like a large area to me.

Aside from the farmers they put out of business; I do not know a single person that does not plant round-end ready, Monsanto themselves boasts a 90% control of corn/soybean market.

Are you telling me you dont mind eating a granola bar with 26 ingredients in it; 90% of which are chemicals, food dyes, preservatives, all which never needed to be there.

Do you like all your fruits/vegetables ripened with ethylene gas? Cause thats what happens! every banana in wal-mart soaks in it.

GMO is better? Your point on insecticides is good; but the long-term effects are hardly understand. Even Stephan with the soon to be Phd; has no godly all knowing answer.

My point is there is just as much information for one side or the other, but i prefer to have my food not be engineered.

[Stephan]

Nothing you just said had anything to do with genetic modification; you seem to be angry at Monsanto business practices and granola bar companies

[Zeh]

Gunter, your post is all over the place, but I'll focus in on these comments:



Are you telling me you dont mind eating a granola bar with 26 ingredients in it; 90% of which are chemicals, food dyes, preservatives, all which never needed to be there.

Do you like all your fruits/vegetables ripened with ethylene gas? Cause thats what happens! every banana in wal-mart soaks in it.


This is the exact fear mongering I'm referring too.

Just because you don't understand the purpose of the "extra" ingredients, you proclaim any additions are unnatural and evil.

You use ethylene gas in a manner that makes it seem like we could all die at any moment by eating a walmart banana.

In general, killing your customers is bad for business, so most companies do extensive research to ensure the products are safe.

They are not always correct, but if we just throw up our hands and proclaim science is trying to kill everyone we'll get nowhere.

If we create a GM food that is capable of feeding all the starving people in the world, but appears causes cancer in 0.1% of the people eating the food, should we throw it all away and say the food is unnatural and let the people starve? No, for the greater good, we start feeding people and work on understanding the cancer link and working to mitigate it. Science is working on helping solve the worlds problems, conspiracy theorists are only slowing down progress.

If the conspiracy theorists are left unchecked, you have problems like Jenny McCarthy killing children by telling the parents not to vaccinate.

Carl Sagan wrote - "Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence."

Do more reasearch and leave your gut feelings at the door.

[wgehalo]

But we can all agree Monsanto is getting away with murder...it just reminds me how helpless I really am.
How can I combat this feeling? By signing petitions? By making protests? It seems whatever I could do wouldn't help in the least bit.
So I opt to play UO and get stoned instead...I'm not proud of it but damn its a ****ty feeling.

[Thunda]

http://www.infowars.com/genetic-genocide-humanitys-greatest-threat/

Get the facts straight.

[Stephan]

Also from infowars.com:

Secret Science Eugenicists are trying to take over the world : http://www.infowars.com/secret-cloning-projects-exposed-help-us-warn-the-world/

Scientists say time travel is impossible (Seriously, this is news to him?) : http://www.infowars.com/scientists-say-time-travel-impossible/

American government is controlling the weather (they actually believe this) : http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/weather_mod_nwo_weapons_trigger_climate_change.htm



make up your own minds, people.


For you, thunda, the "sheeple" are the people like yourself who read anything on the internet and believe it to be true if it fits into the ****ed up conspiratard worldview they have set up for themselves.

[Stephan]

Trying to explain science to anyone who reads infowars.com is like trying to tell a kid something who just plugs his ears and goes "NANANANANA"

[G.G.]

www.drudgereport.com

[Jabu]

Internet.

[Stephan]

I think we can all agree that this is indeed the internet.

[Zorce]

When you say "sheeple" you immediately lose all credibility. I'm not a "mainstream media whore" I'm an educated person who has studied this field for years.

Alex Jones does not know more about GMOs than me, period. Alex Jones panders to people like you who believe they are the only informed people on the planet. It is a brilliant charade on his part, he can take advantage of the nutjob demographic such as yourself. Go read more about chemtrails (contrails for you non-idiots) and the corporate hoax of global warming, you uneducated conspiracy twat

And no, NOTHING from that website is taken from any credible source. He is profiting off of your belief that others are misinforming you while you are being completely misinformed by this idiot. The ONLY source of real information left in this world is peer-reviewed journals, and that is the source of my knowledge after several years of study.

The government has admited to chemtrails...lol for "global warming" so not sure why you brought that up.
Artical with linked sources below.
http://www.infowars.com/government-scientists-propose-geo-engineering-earths-upper-atmosphere/

I like Drudge too, they link to articals on infowars all the time.

As for those who think all is right with the world. Your government loves you and has your best interest at heart.

[Zeh]

The government has admited to chemtrails...lol for "global warming" so not sure why you brought that up.
Artical with linked sources below.
http://www.infowars.com/government-scientists-propose-geo-engineering-earths-upper-atmosphere/

Looking...Looking...still looking for these "credible" sources from this link...????

Ah that's right we'll believe the guy (Alex Jones) who makes piles and piles of cash off the fools who believe his conspiracy theories. It's all good, he graduated high school and dropped out of Austin Community College, he's probably the expert on all this.

Forget the fact we have a PhD student who worked in the industry trying to explain to us the facts, he can't be right.

[Zorce]

Looking...Looking...still looking for these "credible" sources from this link...????

Ah that's right we'll believe the guy (Alex Jones) who makes piles and piles of cash off the fools who believe his conspiracy theories. It's all good, he graduated high school and dropped out of Austin Community College, he's probably the expert on all this.

Forget the fact we have a PhD student who worked in the industry trying to explain to us the facts, he can't be right.

How is he making piles and piles of money of people from conspiracy theories?? All the films he sells in high def do go to fund his program but he puts all of them online for FREE! Other than that and regular advertising (which every radio station uses to pay the bills) where is it he is asking for tons of money?
Monsanto have their hands so dirty that you cant google their name without horror stories coming up. Defend them if you want, but they have been exposed for who and what they are.

[Basia]

This thread reminds me that if I stopped eating everything that people said was bad for me, I would die of starvation. I'm now gonna go eat a chemical soaked banana and a granola bar made with honey, not high fructose corn syrup. I like balance.

You guys need to watch the insults though. It's not really necessary.

[Alfie Garganey]

Dude,

Every other company in the world would have done the same thing if they had the technology monsanto had



It`s not like its the end of the world... cargyl and dow have announced they are in the last stage of development of a similar technology.

[Zorce]

eh to each his own I guess. I just make it a habbit to question anything linked to big government. Especialy with the current administration.

[Stephan]

I defend genetic modification, not Monsanto. I've been abundantly clear in that.

[Zorce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCFP_Unf6zA&feature=player_embedded

[Stephan]

alex jones studied what scientific field again?



oh... right, he didn't. he's just profiting off of fear-mongering towards imbeciles

[Epsilon]

Medical Ethics are debated in the science community. The people who tend to see the face of jesus or the virgin mary in toast don't have to worry, they are still represented in a field where science is studied.

[wgehalo]

I want some toast now...

[Zeh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCFP_Unf6zA&feature=player_embedded

I could only get through about 5 minutes of this guy spouting his fear mongering. Nice ominous scary background music, showing news report headlines out of context.

At the point where I left he was saying "what is the worst threat to human civilization..." and the whole time there were pictures of Sarah Palin in the background, this gave me a good laugh.

You know what's unnatural, humans living to be 100 years old, I guess we should just throw all this science out the door and go back to living to be 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy)

I have a link for you that will be more fruitful than watching any of the conspiracy theorists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
Start with that link, then start learning a little more about the process of critical thinking, you'll be amazed how that will open your eyes.

[ishkabibbel2000]

Medical Ethics are debated in the science community. The people who tend to see the face of jesus or the virgin mary in toast don't have to worry, they are still represented in a field where science is studied.

I swear, I wish I had money to burn like the morons that bought stuff like the Virgin Mary toast, or Cheesus. I would buy some air time on a religious channel and eat the damned thing while screaming, "I'M EATING JESUS FACE!"

It's not that I don't have beliefs, but people can be pretty f-ing dumb.

[Epsilon]

I swear, I wish I had money to burn like the morons that bought stuff like the Virgin Mary toast, or Cheesus. I would buy some air time on a religious channel and eat the damned thing while screaming, "I'M EATING JESUS FACE!"

It's not that I don't have beliefs, but people can be pretty f-ing dumb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltg8IMKs2Dg

[Professional]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltg8IMKs2Dg

Oh. My. God.

[wgehalo]

Oh. My. God.
What is it my son?

[Professional]

What is it my son?

The vines have been genetically modified by the Lord himself.

[Zorce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltg8IMKs2Dg

lmfao that is awesome!
Who ever thinks that is Jesus is a liar because its hanging on a telephone wire =P

See what I did there? lol

[Stephan]

http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/07/science-doesnt-say.html

a good, short post on WHY scientists believe what we believe, i think it could do a lot of good for some of you who have been so vehemently anti-scientific. it explains how a scientific consensus is reached, very useful!

[Epsilon]

While we do not know the long term affects of GMO, this same genetic engineering is the bright hope for beating cancer. Unless you shop at organic stores. You consume GMO and it doesn't have to be labeled. I personally say let's reap the benefits, but in pursuit of honorable endeavors, such as cancer fighting. Solving hunger is far from a problem, and the dieting industry can prove this. Modifying animals for profits is an ethical debate.

I look forward to breakthru science, such as quantum computers or getting injections to help my cells. The next generation is in for a wild ride, just as we were. Mass consumer internet in our lifetime was huge.

[idyllhands]

People like you are the worst type of people on the internet! Not only are you completely misinformed, but you talk as if you actually know something and link to conspiracy websites as your support. If you are going to believe in nonsense, go ahead, but don't try to take everyone else down with you!

GMOs do not cause cancer and your suggesting that it does reveals a large gap in your understanding of genetic modification and genetics in general.

my source: 4 years of molecular & cellular biology and soon to begin phD studies in biochemistry. did work on GMOs for two years starting 3 years ago and began cancer research last year.

Interesting that after 4 years, the only source you cite is the fact that you've studied for 4 years. I would've thought you could point to a specific study that asserts your case that "GMOs do not cause cancer."

[Stephan]

Interesting that after 4 years, the only source you cite is the fact that you've studied for 4 years. I would've thought you could point to a specific study that asserts your case that "GMOs do not cause cancer."

It is not necessary to disprove a wild assertion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And while you may not understand biology enough to see that cancer and genetic modification are two vastly non-related concepts, I however do. Rather than a study that says "GMOs do not cause cancer," that should be the default belief until a "GMOs cause cancer" study is released (which well never happen for the reasons I have repeatedly outlined throughout this thread).

[Wyrm'gard]

go eat some bean sprouts
hope you dont die due to feces

Glad someone else noticed some of the E.Coli breakouts the last few years were from organic food.

[Wyrm'gard]

Oh I also love how people throw out accusations and say 'PROVE I'M WRONG!'

No... the burden of proof is on you for your accusations. Prove that you are correct; conspiracy theories are not evidence and neither is saying "well it's not been disproved so I must be right!"

[Effigy]

Wow, I was literally laughing out loud half the time while reading this thread. Nothing like a good internet debate.

[idyllhands]

It is not necessary to disprove a wild assertion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And while you may not understand biology enough to see that cancer and genetic modification are two vastly non-related concepts, I however do. Rather than a study that says "GMOs do not cause cancer," that should be the default belief until a "GMOs cause cancer" study is released (which well never happen for the reasons I have repeatedly outlined throughout this thread).

I agree with you entirely. Which is why I called upon you to provide a study that proves your assertion that


...GMOs do not cause cancer...


It should be an easy task if it is such an evident stance. Or are you simply going on faith that they do not cause cancer?

After reading many of your posts, I question your understanding of biology. Cancer occurs when a cell's instruction set becomes corrupted, be it by damaging radiation or by ingesting food which causes toxins to corrupt cellular instructions. I am not making the claim that GMOs cause cancer (though I have a feeling that some of them probably do) I am calling on you to prove your (what you claim to be so easily provable that it is trivial) claim that they without a doubt do not cause cancer.

ps: yes I like to ressurrect dead threads :D

[TheAppropriator]

Man how did i miss this thread?

First of all, if you're going to drudge report or anything like the drudge report and don't immediately notice how biased, opinionated, and off base it is scientifically you're probably missing a chromosome.

GMO food has not been proven or disproven to cause cancer as far as i have heard from the scientific community (although there are many active experiments being carried out). This is why we as a society should always be studying, always be learning, and always be testing using scientific methods to enrich our understanding of the world. If we didn't do this, we'd probably still be using DDT and Agent Orange (also Monsanto, coincidentally).

No matter what side of the fence you're on, everyone should be in agreeance that a conclusive answer should be found and that this answer should come from multiple rigorous scientific studies, not some ******* on the internet or a single poorly performed experiment funded by proponents or opponents of GMO. There will always be a market for not GMO food because some people just don't like the idea of it.

Like rBGH milk, aspartame, and eating well done or charred meat; until significant evidence is supplied that an item causes cancer it will not be pulled off the shelves or banned.

[Sennacherib]

Don't forget that Monsanto was balls deep in Agent Orange during Vietnam.. Spraying on our own soldiers.. and when they got cancer, the military/govt/corporations didn't pay a dime to them for compensation. Sounds pretty ****in evil to me

[Stephan]

After reading many of your posts, I question your understanding of biology. Cancer occurs when a cell's instruction set becomes corrupted, be it by damaging radiation or by ingesting food which causes toxins to corrupt cellular instructions. I am not making the claim that GMOs cause cancer (though I have a feeling that some of them probably do) I am calling on you to prove your (what you claim to be so easily provable that it is trivial) claim that they without a doubt do not cause cancer.

ps: yes I like to ressurrect dead threads :D

You may question my knowledge of biology, and I'll clarify it for you, but I'd question your logic in that. Cancer is indeed caused by mutagens that cause damage to cell DNA. Somehow, you make the jump in logic that consuming genetically modified food somehow contains more carcinogens solely from the process of genetic modification. This logic does not make sense, there is nothing inherent in a process of genetic modification that increases the amount of carcinogens in the modified organism. This is not a wild claim, this is a basic fact. Genetic modification merely changes the DNA in an organism, DNA which has no inherent mutagenic potential.

By all means, you could genetically modify a plant to produce a carcinogen. It is completely in the realms of possibility. On the other hand, it is also completely possible to genetically modify a plant to remove an innate carcinogen. In this case, genetic modification would actually be decreasing the likelihood of a plant causing cancer. The jump everyone seems to be making is that somehow genetically modifying a plant causes it to become carcinogenic, or toxic, or whatever. This simply is not true.


Let me give you an example of a legitimate concern with genetic modifcation. This is not a real-world issue, it is merely a thought device used to illustrate a point:

A corn plant is genetically modified to include larger-than-normal amounts of L-arginine, a protein necessary to the diet of farm animals. This is intended to reduce farmer's dependence on dietary supplements to keep their cattle healthy.
Unfortunately, and unknown to scientists at the time, the limited amounts of L-arginine in the local environment (natural corn) have been keeping the populations of the pest "fake-example-beetle" in check. "Fake-example-beetle," another organism which requires L-arginine for growth, booms in population and causes large amounts of destruction to local crops.

This is just to illustrate the scale of "problems" that arise with genetic modification. The problems do not arise on the level of a single cell or even a single organism; these mechanisms are very well understood by this point. The problems end up arising three steps ahead due to subtle limiting factors, protectionary agents, and balances that exist naturally within ecosystems. Sometimes an "easy fix" can throw the balance off catastrophically and all angles must be considered before large-scale introduction of certain modified genes.